Is Rocky Marciano as respected as he should be?

[PRINCEKOOL]

Most people wouldnt know who jack johnson is.
A lot wouldnt even know who sugar ray robinson is. though they might guess he is a boxer from his name

Most weasels.

If you was a newcomer to boxing, and wanted to educate yourself on the history of the sport 'Those boxers I have mentioned, would be some of the fighters who would be synonymous with boxing' apart of the curriculum.

If the history of boxing was taught at University, those are the fighters that would be mentioned etc.

Sure from your perception, most people may not be aware of some of those fighters 'But lets face it Rick Taylor? You are probably surrounded by weasels, and you clearly value what they think'.

Who are these people you are speaking of? People in your local commercial gym? Just weasels mate, stop letting them have a effect on your life 'You know who Jack Johnson is, so that is good enough for me'.

[Boxing-1013]

In the past, i’ve touched on records like Canelo, Chavez Sr, Duran, where I mentioned that is the old school way of bringing up fighters. Having them fight a bum of the month opponent to stack their resume. In fact I probably said that within the last two weeks. I have also always said that fans and media don’t like that way of bringing up fighters. And yes, I say it again here for Marciano as I said it for Canelo, Chavez Sr, and Duran.

Also, read the part where I said “to be fair, every fighter did that at the time”.

You are doing what most people do which is selective reading. I don’t recall you replying to my post saying that about the above fighters and saying “I agree with you kev, good post”. But you come in here swinging your purse at me for saying the same exact thing about Marciano.

I've seen you post about Canelo - I don't recall too many objective criticisms about him. Certainly when talking about his legacy, I've never seen you mention that the early part of his career was a farce. Which as you said, it is what it is. That's how it is for most fighters, but for some it is on steroids a bit with how poor the opposition is, or for how long they face such poor opposition.

What really matters is what they do in their careers. For you to get on one guy about the padded resume, both with bum of the month types, and then also wins over past-prime great fighters, but your current favorite, who has a similar career, you spin the other way. I mean what are we even doing here.

As you said, there are many great fighters from all backgrounds. No one needs to overhype any one fighter or denigrate any other, as there are always at least a handful from that group to revere as the real deal.

But to get on Marciano for that stuff, and let it slide with Canelo, or even explain it away, I mean it's silly man.

[TonyGe]

May sound crazy but he reminds me of Bernard Hopkins. Both guys got every ounce out the talents they had. This has nothing to do with who is the better fighter or their longevity. Both guys were fitness fanatics and worked their ass off to get where they were. Dedication, hard work and determination are qualities they developed to the max. Is he overrated? Maybe but you got to respect his work ethic. Actually respect both guys. One man retired undefeated the other had a world class career that lasted it seemed like forever.

[-Kev-]

I've seen you post about Canelo - I don't recall too many objective criticisms about him. Certainly when talking about his legacy, I've never seen you mention that the early part of his career was a farce. Which as you said, it is what it is. That's how it is for most fighters, but for some it is on steroids a bit with how poor the opposition is, or for how long they face such poor opposition.

What really matters is what they do in their careers. For you to get on one guy about the padded resume, both with bum of the month types, and then also wins over past-prime great fighters, but your current favorite, who has a similar career, you spin the other way. I mean what are we even doing here.

As you said, there are many great fighters from all backgrounds. No one needs to overhype any one fighter or denigrate any other, as there are always at least a handful from that group to revere as the real deal.

But to get on Marciano for that stuff, and let it slide with Canelo, or even explain it away, I mean it's silly man.

I say the same thing about padded records any time I see it. Including Canelo.

I read you say something in another reply in this thread that Joe Louis was a good win because that was only his 2nd loss. I can’t even refute that because that’s so wrong. I don’t even care like that though. These are your opinions about these fighters and it doesn’t matter to me. The thread is asking why isn’t Marciano more respected and my opinion is that his most notable wins were old ATG’s at the end of their careers.

[BoloShot]

People underrate him because he's been slapped with the great white hope label by an openly racist media.

[BoloShot]

The last thing I'd call Rocky is underrated. I think he's more overrated than underrated. I think it's hard to gauge guys who never lost & that being the case they tend to get boosted up by more fans than bumped down.

That said I think if he's underrated by some it's cuz he retired younger than most heavyweight champs & we don't got any concrete takes on how he'd have faired against the likes of Patterson or Liston who dominated after him & woulda branched him out to the next gen era more than his actual career did.

He kinda faced all the top guys of his era and retired without making the fatal mistake of coming back to only get destroyed by the new up and comers as an old fighter.

[BoloShot]

If he had a different complexion he would be viewed differently by almost all of those who hold an opinion about him now. That's how everyone evaluates fighters, certainly most everyone.

I think most people acknowledge he was the best in a fairly weak era. Depending on how much you identify with him, you will have some saying 'he was the best and made others in his era look weak'; others will say 'he was overrated in a bad era.' As always the truth is probably somewhere in between.

Always hard to compare eras and he was the best of his. He was a bit small imho to really compare to many ATG HWs but with his style he would have given most of them a great fight and would have probably won his fair share.

He seemed about as tough as any HW ever and that is saying something and means something. Gotta imagine he would get the Joe Frazier vs George Foreman treatment from a lot of true HWs though. But then again a lot of 'great' HWs likely would have gotten that treatment. HWs have gotten bigger and better over time.

This is how I see it. If he were fighting today he'd be a cruiserweight or light heavyweight and he'd probably have been a killer in either.

[BoloShot]

I know you're not a Canelo fan talking like that - his first 18 fights, which he went 17-1. Were against guys with a combined record of 101-103. He faced one guy 3 times in that span, who finished his career 15-36-3. The third time Canelo needed a split decision to get the win.

The audacity of you to get on any fighter for those things, yet you revere Canelo, what a joke.

Don't forget he robbed Miguel Vazquez twice early in his career when that was his first step up. Not surprised either, Miguel is an incredibly crafty spoiler who's hard to beat. An inexperienced fighter's nightmare.

[Boxing-1013]

If I really cared at all, I'm sure I can find 'stats' that show Charles and Walcott (4 fights/wins there btw) and Louis (1 win) were formidable enough, which they were. Quickly, for example, that was just Louis' 2nd loss of the last 15 years.

I read you say something in another reply in this thread that Joe Louis was a good win because that was only his 2nd loss. I can’t even refute that because that’s so wrong.

1) I said formidable enough win

2) I said it was only his 2nd loss of his last 15 years. That is objectively, a fact.

[Boxing-1013]

This is how I see it. If he were fighting today he'd be a cruiserweight or light heavyweight and he'd probably have been a killer in either.

Don't forget he robbed Miguel Vazquez twice early in his career when that was his first step up. Not surprised either, Miguel is an incredibly crafty spoiler who's hard to beat. An inexperienced fighter's nightmare.

Yes agreed, well said. Good posts.