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To be very blunt, I don't believe that's true. Before I get into it I want to ease you, this won't be patriotism thumping, just history. I'm just going to tell you some stuff you can look up yourself if you like, no opinions, no leading you any direction because I am authentically curious how your perspective can line up with this history.
America starts to take over boxing during the 1840s. That's why the English champs around then start coming here for their title fights; paydays.
The way these high paydays come about has nothing, at all, to do with wins and losses, Americans doing well in the British(English and Irish to be exact) era and everything to do with hysteria and American politics.
Tom Hyer's nickname, Young American, is a political name. It's like calling yourself Uncle Sam or Johnny Reb. I dunno if those exist over there but I'm sure you know about Sam at least...Lady Liberty etc.
Young American is the title of the first generation of grown men born in America. When they became voting age their political movements focused on America for American born Americans.
By the time of Hyer the Young American's concerns had become centered around immigration. Specifically, the Young American did not understand why America allowed such open borders for the violent, monarchist, Old World thinking, Europeans.
You might think like the revolution or some such has the gnarliest jabs at the crown, but not even close, that ****'s around the 1840s.
This culminating in Irish hate. I'm sure you're at least a little aware of American xenophobia toward Irishmen shortly after the Irish immigration wave of the 1820s-40s. This is that.
Enter Yankee Sullivan. An Irishman whose real name is questionable but certainly not Yankee Sullivan. In Ireland he's banned and sent to Van Diem's (Tasmania I reckon?) from there he made his way to the US. A fighting man the whole way, even his side work centered on fighting. He was the sort you hired to stand outside ballot boxes and tell you who to vote for otherwise he'd give you a beating. A real bastard, but a real fighting man nonetheless.
Throughout his boxing career he used the name Yankee and claimed to be an American. By the time he made it to the states, having been kicked out of Ireland and England for his criminal career, to which he used different names, and having stowed away aboard a ship to get there, our Yankee makes the mistake of continuing to pretend to be American.
Yankee, being an Irishman, has European connections, not American connections. So naturally he seconds a lot of other expats, one of them is Chris Lilly, or maybe it was Thomas McCoy, I don't remember who was the Englishman and who was the American. I'm leaning Lilly.
Anyway, McCoy was flopping, so Yankee instructed Lilly to follow the flop and hit him with the elbow rather than taking the kick. I can go into more details about flopping and the counters to it but for this, right now, let's keep moving.
Tom kept flopping and Chris would drop the elbow to follow but Chris started to tire and get up slower, and slower.
Eventually, Chris had to be lifted off Tom because he couldn't get up. When they did this, Tom McCoy, the American, was dead.
This isn't the first death in American boxing history, but, it had some real, real bad timing. At the same time the Young American political movement is highly focused on propaganda centered around European violent culture being imported into good wholesome American culture by Irish immigrants all over newspapers.
There is a murder trial, Lilly ****s off back to England leaving Yankee, the fake american, to stand trial. His criminal life in Ireland, England, Tasmania, and Australia come out, how he got to America illegally comes out, what he does professionally and what laws he's broken all come out.
In the end, the Judge was pretty fair about Sullivan's nonsense and did not hold him guilty of McCoy's murder. Ruling it an unfortunate accident the judge did bane Yankee from boxing for three years. I think it was to appease those seeking a noose.
This all blew up in the newspapers. A violent, lying, manipulative, murderous, Irishman besmirching the good name of Americans all across the planet and getting away with killing a man.
Yankee, instead of staying away from the ring, just went out of that region's jurisdiction.
Tom Hyer rode this American political wave and crowned himself the Young American to do away with this European issue. He was able to swing the idea of boxing away from just an example of European cultural violence to a proper means for real men to settle a score. You know, ye old macho bull.
Tom was successful, America wanted to see it, and in the end they got to. Tom Hyer beat Yankee Sullivan in America's first big ass fight ever on US soil, not the first title fight but first big ass title fight, and from there became the hegemony state for not just where boxing is conducted but how it is as well.
The pre-fight press, the fight press, the post fight press, it all put boxing in the hands of the everyday American and brought it out of the ******** dens asking every grown ass man in America to consider boxing's value as a political tool to end boxing and Irish immigration.
Tom Sayers vs John C Heenan only matters because by then the great boxing powers were equals, another generation and we're looking at John L and Charlie Mitchell respectively. By then the Brits have lost control and say in global boxing.
I didn't mention Mace for time reasons, but he deserves some mention so I'll just say between Hyer and John L Mace makes Queenberry and gloves popular.
Charlie Mitchell's English title is not a regional title. That was the world title according to the English. Today we call it the English title because we call the American title Universal and have to give the other world titles that existed when the US world title became the most world recognized some kind of moniker to differentiate world titles.
John L. did not beat Charlie Mitchell and combine their titles or absorb the British world disputed, they drew when they fought for the world crown and since John L, the American backed and popularized by the American political system 40 years prior, is today seen at the first universal champion. Some even call him undisputed.
Last note on Hyer real quick, he reigned a decade and was not beaten but rather retired.
For continuity's sake let's look at England in the 1840s
That's right after Jem Mace and Deaf Burke are done screwing around. Jem and his gang ruined Burke's reign and made history really difficult to chart fairly and correctly during their bull****.
Nick Ward and the Ward gang continued their nonsense pretty much the entire 1840s and even though their fixed fights and threats of violence to officials were overt the feeling at the time was more or less but the man with the belt makes the rules, what can we do?
From the late 1820s until around the late 1850s English boxing consisted of fixed fight and things of the sort the English felt powerless to prevent. They even went as far as to come to the US during the 30s to avoid the English process. They did created the American process in that time. Literally set up the system as far as training, deal making, etc, Hyer would use. Obviously Burke can't get credit for Americans hating immigrants, but, the boxing end of the system, they set that up because the British system was failing and it continued to fail until the British adopted the American system in the 1890s, just after John L.
Okay, novel done.
I don't feel like propaganda from now or then influences the idea the US political system itself is why boxing became so much more popular in America around the world than anywhere else. That's all John really is, he is the HW champion who was popular in the US, England, Australia, and Ireland...the major states of the era. Mitchell earned his crown but being less popular than John in Ireland, Australia, and the US is why we see John and not Charlie as the world champion while Charlie is just the English world champion.
I think that's just the story history tells. There was a political movement, a hysteria came of it, boxing became popular in US culture, and John L rode the wave of that popularity using a cult of personality that drew in the rest of the world until everyone's boxing was Americanized.
Including yours, presently, we made sparring cool in the 1850s. Which is itself another cultural and political story centered around the good found in boxing and how it doesn't even have to be a damaging sport or experience.
Prior, English sparring was a test to see if you were worthy of training. Not a part of training.
They are very connected and I'd love to see a different perspective. I don't feel like it's my opinion that boxing became american due to american politics. I don't feel like it's my opinion sparring is more or less standardized in its meaning to follow the American, politically influenced, version of what sparring means.
Final thought, I am not being a passive aggressive ****, I really would like an alternative point of view. I'm not saying that over and over again because I'm super confident you won't. I'm really curious actually.
Edit- I shoulda have at least told y'all how Yanks dies. He fleeing the lawmen and American crime rings alike until he hits the Vigilance Committee in Cali. An illegal insurgent militia the US government took a while to deal with. Yankee was arrested by the VC and stabbed to death in his cell. The VC claimed suicide but I think that's doubtful given Yankee had gotten himself out much, much, worse situations through using the system. I assume they new what would happen if Yanks stood any kind of trial so they stabbed him....all conjecture though, what we know is he died from a stab wound in his cell under the care of the VC who claimed he did it himself.
America starts to take over boxing during the 1840s. That's why the English champs around then start coming here for their title fights; paydays.
The way these high paydays come about has nothing, at all, to do with wins and losses, Americans doing well in the British(English and Irish to be exact) era and everything to do with hysteria and American politics.
Tom Hyer's nickname, Young American, is a political name. It's like calling yourself Uncle Sam or Johnny Reb. I dunno if those exist over there but I'm sure you know about Sam at least...Lady Liberty etc.
Young American is the title of the first generation of grown men born in America. When they became voting age their political movements focused on America for American born Americans.
By the time of Hyer the Young American's concerns had become centered around immigration. Specifically, the Young American did not understand why America allowed such open borders for the violent, monarchist, Old World thinking, Europeans.
You might think like the revolution or some such has the gnarliest jabs at the crown, but not even close, that ****'s around the 1840s.
This culminating in Irish hate. I'm sure you're at least a little aware of American xenophobia toward Irishmen shortly after the Irish immigration wave of the 1820s-40s. This is that.
Enter Yankee Sullivan. An Irishman whose real name is questionable but certainly not Yankee Sullivan. In Ireland he's banned and sent to Van Diem's (Tasmania I reckon?) from there he made his way to the US. A fighting man the whole way, even his side work centered on fighting. He was the sort you hired to stand outside ballot boxes and tell you who to vote for otherwise he'd give you a beating. A real bastard, but a real fighting man nonetheless.
Throughout his boxing career he used the name Yankee and claimed to be an American. By the time he made it to the states, having been kicked out of Ireland and England for his criminal career, to which he used different names, and having stowed away aboard a ship to get there, our Yankee makes the mistake of continuing to pretend to be American.
Yankee, being an Irishman, has European connections, not American connections. So naturally he seconds a lot of other expats, one of them is Chris Lilly, or maybe it was Thomas McCoy, I don't remember who was the Englishman and who was the American. I'm leaning Lilly.
Anyway, McCoy was flopping, so Yankee instructed Lilly to follow the flop and hit him with the elbow rather than taking the kick. I can go into more details about flopping and the counters to it but for this, right now, let's keep moving.
Tom kept flopping and Chris would drop the elbow to follow but Chris started to tire and get up slower, and slower.
Eventually, Chris had to be lifted off Tom because he couldn't get up. When they did this, Tom McCoy, the American, was dead.
This isn't the first death in American boxing history, but, it had some real, real bad timing. At the same time the Young American political movement is highly focused on propaganda centered around European violent culture being imported into good wholesome American culture by Irish immigrants all over newspapers.
There is a murder trial, Lilly ****s off back to England leaving Yankee, the fake american, to stand trial. His criminal life in Ireland, England, Tasmania, and Australia come out, how he got to America illegally comes out, what he does professionally and what laws he's broken all come out.
In the end, the Judge was pretty fair about Sullivan's nonsense and did not hold him guilty of McCoy's murder. Ruling it an unfortunate accident the judge did bane Yankee from boxing for three years. I think it was to appease those seeking a noose.
This all blew up in the newspapers. A violent, lying, manipulative, murderous, Irishman besmirching the good name of Americans all across the planet and getting away with killing a man.
Yankee, instead of staying away from the ring, just went out of that region's jurisdiction.
Tom Hyer rode this American political wave and crowned himself the Young American to do away with this European issue. He was able to swing the idea of boxing away from just an example of European cultural violence to a proper means for real men to settle a score. You know, ye old macho bull.
Tom was successful, America wanted to see it, and in the end they got to. Tom Hyer beat Yankee Sullivan in America's first big ass fight ever on US soil, not the first title fight but first big ass title fight, and from there became the hegemony state for not just where boxing is conducted but how it is as well.
The pre-fight press, the fight press, the post fight press, it all put boxing in the hands of the everyday American and brought it out of the ******** dens asking every grown ass man in America to consider boxing's value as a political tool to end boxing and Irish immigration.
Tom Sayers vs John C Heenan only matters because by then the great boxing powers were equals, another generation and we're looking at John L and Charlie Mitchell respectively. By then the Brits have lost control and say in global boxing.
I didn't mention Mace for time reasons, but he deserves some mention so I'll just say between Hyer and John L Mace makes Queenberry and gloves popular.
Charlie Mitchell's English title is not a regional title. That was the world title according to the English. Today we call it the English title because we call the American title Universal and have to give the other world titles that existed when the US world title became the most world recognized some kind of moniker to differentiate world titles.
John L. did not beat Charlie Mitchell and combine their titles or absorb the British world disputed, they drew when they fought for the world crown and since John L, the American backed and popularized by the American political system 40 years prior, is today seen at the first universal champion. Some even call him undisputed.
Last note on Hyer real quick, he reigned a decade and was not beaten but rather retired.
For continuity's sake let's look at England in the 1840s
That's right after Jem Mace and Deaf Burke are done screwing around. Jem and his gang ruined Burke's reign and made history really difficult to chart fairly and correctly during their bull****.
Nick Ward and the Ward gang continued their nonsense pretty much the entire 1840s and even though their fixed fights and threats of violence to officials were overt the feeling at the time was more or less but the man with the belt makes the rules, what can we do?
From the late 1820s until around the late 1850s English boxing consisted of fixed fight and things of the sort the English felt powerless to prevent. They even went as far as to come to the US during the 30s to avoid the English process. They did created the American process in that time. Literally set up the system as far as training, deal making, etc, Hyer would use. Obviously Burke can't get credit for Americans hating immigrants, but, the boxing end of the system, they set that up because the British system was failing and it continued to fail until the British adopted the American system in the 1890s, just after John L.
Okay, novel done. I don't feel like propaganda from now or then influences the idea the US political system itself is why boxing became so much more popular in America around the world than anywhere else. That's all John really is, he is the HW champion who was popular in the US, England, Australia, and Ireland...the major states of the era. Mitchell earned his crown but being less popular than John in Ireland, Australia, and the US is why we see John and not Charlie as the world champion while Charlie is just the English world champion.
I think that's just the story history tells. There was a political movement, a hysteria came of it, boxing became popular in US culture, and John L rode the wave of that popularity using a cult of personality that drew in the rest of the world until everyone's boxing was Americanized.
Including yours, presently, we made sparring cool in the 1850s. Which is itself another cultural and political story centered around the good found in boxing and how it doesn't even have to be a damaging sport or experience.
Prior, English sparring was a test to see if you were worthy of training. Not a part of training.
They are very connected and I'd love to see a different perspective. I don't feel like it's my opinion that boxing became american due to american politics. I don't feel like it's my opinion sparring is more or less standardized in its meaning to follow the American, politically influenced, version of what sparring means.
Final thought, I am not being a passive aggressive ****, I really would like an alternative point of view. I'm not saying that over and over again because I'm super confident you won't. I'm really curious actually.
Edit- I shoulda have at least told y'all how Yanks dies. He fleeing the lawmen and American crime rings alike until he hits the Vigilance Committee in Cali. An illegal insurgent militia the US government took a while to deal with. Yankee was arrested by the VC and stabbed to death in his cell. The VC claimed suicide but I think that's doubtful given Yankee had gotten himself out much, much, worse situations through using the system. I assume they new what would happen if Yanks stood any kind of trial so they stabbed him....all conjecture though, what we know is he died from a stab wound in his cell under the care of the VC who claimed he did it himself.
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