Should fighters take the blame for decisions their promoters make?

[Ray*]

Go on then, who is working for who? You quite sure you even understand the terminology here? A managers job is working for the fighter, but the promoters responsibility is to make money for his promotion, he can only be seen as 'working for the fighter' inasmuch as their interests co-incide. Perhaps the closest analogy is describing the fighter as a contractor and the promoter as the client, although it's slightly more nuanced and there's a number of different ways in can work, especially for PPVs or when you get fighters effectively becoming their own one man promotions which is the way they tend to go (mainly for tax reasons I think) when they start getting decent purses or PPV income. The issue is confused further with the blurred roles between promoters and distributors and by fighters having contracts with - sometimes - both distruibutor and promoter, but in all cases the fighter is getting paid by one of them, and so, by definition, is kinda working 'for' them.

That FWIW is the key import of the Ali act by the way, the delination of legal responsibility... the drawing of a firewall between manager and promoter.

You might find some of this **** useful or at least a person who didn't think they already knew everything might find it useful...

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416608

https://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/boxing-promoter.htm

https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-b...s-get-paid-etc


To be fair though I've noticed in the past you don't seem to have a very good grasp on this kinda **** do ya? Purses and budgets and whatnot? Y'Know, how this stuff actually works in the real world... like thinking SKY were gonna pay for GGG to fight who he wanted on HBO.

Probably comes from only bandwagoning the very few fighters in the world who can actually afford to pretty much click their fingers and get who the hell they want in the ring.

He doesn’t really have much knowledge of boxing, I actually thought he would one of the guys that knows their boxing here. It seems I was wrong.. He is totally clueless.

[Citizen Koba]

He doesn’t really have much knowledge of boxing, I actually thought he would one of the guys that knows their boxing here. It seems I was wrong.. He is totally clueless.

I mean this is really 101 level stuff... intro level.

Dude parades as if he has knowledge - in fact I think he genuinely believes in his own genius - but as soon as you actually get down to the detail, the nitty gritty, it turns out his understanding is flimsy at best.

It's why I suspect he resorts to simple insult much of the time, kinda deflects from his ignorance and he knows that if he keeps it up long enough eventually the other dude will just give up trying to have a dialogue. Kinda misses the point of a forum if you ask me, but it takes all sorts I guess.

[aboutfkntime]

Go on then, who is working for who? You quite sure you even understand the terminology here? A managers job is working for the fighter, but the promoters responsibility is to make money for his promotion, he can only be seen as 'working for the fighter' inasmuch as their interests co-incide. Perhaps the closest analogy is describing the fighter as a contractor and the promoter as the client, although it's slightly more nuanced and there's a number of different ways in can work, especially for PPVs or when you get fighters effectively becoming their own one man promotions which is the way they tend to go (mainly for tax reasons I think) when they start getting decent purses or PPV income. The issue is confused further with the blurred roles between promoters and distributors and by fighters having contracts with - sometimes - both distruibutor and promoter, but in all cases the fighter is getting paid by one of them, and so, by definition, is kinda working 'for' them.

That FWIW is the key import of the Ali act by the way, the delination of legal responsibility... the drawing of a firewall between manager and promoter.

You might find some of this **** useful or at least a person who didn't think they already knew everything might find it useful...

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416608

https://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/boxing-promoter.htm

https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-b...s-get-paid-etc


To be fair though I've noticed in the past you don't seem to have a very good grasp on this kinda **** do ya? Purses and budgets and whatnot? Y'Know, how this stuff actually works in the real world... like thinking SKY were gonna pay for GGG to fight who he wanted on HBO.

Probably comes from only bandwagoning the very few fighters in the world who can actually afford to pretty much click their fingers and get who the hell they want in the ring.

you are just a fkn idiot kid

just another spastic fanboy who needs to blurt out excuses for his pacifist girlfriend

every time an excuse needs to be made for Bullshltkin or AJ, there you are... blurting out random nonsense

grow up you ***wit, and hold a grown man accountable for his own decisions

this is how the real world works shlthead...

FACT: a grown man is responsible for the words/actions of his official representatives

stop making childish excuses you shameless fanboy shlthead... what a clown

FACT: plenty of fighters sue/leave/sit out their contract... so as usual, you are just a shlt-talking ***wit

[aboutfkntime]

as usual, the shlt-stains arrive to blurt out nonsense excuses

this thread is now a perfect example of why fighters should always be held 100% responsible FOR THEIR OWN DECISIONS...

... so that spastic fanboys cannot hide behind promoters, and blurt out ridiculous excuses whenever their hypejob shlts himself

[aboutfkntime]

I love AJ, he wonderful...

Ray...

it is official...

you can take your seat on the back of the short-bus with the other fanboy clowns

excuse-making ***wit

[aboutfkntime]

the biggest shlthead fanbase ever (in order)...

1) pac-tards
2) Golovkin
3) Joshua

three over-rated hypejobs

Pac is still over-rated, but at least he has substance...

Golovkin/Joshua fans are just bottom-feeding scum... the lowest of the low

Golovkin/Joshua fans can best be described as... ******ity with a mouth

[Citizen Koba]

you are just a fkn idiot kid

just another spastic fanboy who needs to blurt out excuses for his pacifist girlfriend

every time an excuse needs to be made for Bullshltkin or AJ, there you are... blurting out random nonsense

grow up you ***wit, and hold a grown man accountable for his own decisions

this is how the real world works shlthead...

FACT: a grown man is responsible for the words/actions of his official representatives

stop making childish excuses you shameless fanboy shlthead... what a clown

FACT: plenty of fighters sue/leave/sit out their contract... so as usual, you are just a shlt-talking ***wit

Oh dear me. Back to the insults already, huh? Ah well, when you already know you ain't got a leg to stand on I guess there ain't much else you can do - less you were mature enough to just admit you were wrong... Nah. Step too far that I think..

Just bear in mind I was making a simple and entirely obvious point about the relationship between promoters and boxers, one that is in fact enshrined in law not to mention the simple and obvious fact that in the real world the guy who is paying the wages ain't usually seen as the guy who's working for the dude who's getting paid... It was you who jumped in on my, Scrappy, I wasn't defending anyone and I sure as fuck had no intention wasting my time on you.


As to 'responsibilities' sure - fighters can leave their promoters any time they like - if they don't mind breaching contract, possibly losing a few years of their career in court and so on. Some of 'em agonise over it I'm sure, some stay, some go and it's never entirely obvious which was the right course to take until much later, if ever... cept to you of course, cos you're obviously like omniscent or something.

FWIW I tend to see the fighter/promoter relationship as a kinda mutually beneficial one - at least in an ideal world, the promoter obviously wants to maximise income by making the most lucrative fights possible and simultaneously to minimise outgoings by paying the fighter (and the opponent) the least amount possible, but also has to find the right balance that'll keep the fighter happy and stop 'em running off to someone else. Whatever they do though a promoter has to remain profitiable - contrary to what you seem to think they ain't in the business of just throwing money and fight and fighters that won't give 'em a return - and yes they do have budgets.

That isn't really directly relevent to the thread topic though, cos neither the promoter or the fighter are really responsible if they can't afford to pay their opponents what those opponents think they're worth. If you can't afford to get an opponent in the ring and still pay your guy then it ain't really a 'choice' now is it, any more than it's a choice if I can't buy that Lamborghini down at the car dealership.

[aboutfkntime]

Oh dear me. Back to the insults already, huh? Ah well, when you already know you ain't got a leg to stand on I guess there ain't much else you can do - less you were mature enough to just admit you were wrong... Nah. Step too far that I think..

Just bear in mind I was making a simple and entirely obvious point about the relationship between promoters and boxers, one that is in fact enshrined in law not to mention the simple and obvious fact that in the real world the guy who is paying the wages ain't usually seen as the guy who's working for the dude who's getting paid... I t was you who jumped in on my, Scrappy, I wasn't defending anyone and I sure as fuck had no intention wasting my time on you.


As to 'responsibilities' sure - fighters can leave their promoters any time they like - if they don't mind breaching contract, possibly losing a few years of their career in court and so on. Some of 'em agonise over it I'm sure, some stay, some go and it's never entirely obvious which was the right course to take until much later, if ever... cept to you of course, cos you're obviously like omniscent or something.

you are just an excuse-blurting shlthead

every fighter EVER, is 100% responsible - and accountable - for his own resume... as the bold proves

if your guy did not have the balls, that is on him... oh, and on you... grow up you creepy little hero-worshiping clown

this is how a real fighter behaves, pay attention to 1.45...






is this where you bash Ward... to somehow elevate Golovkin... ?

[Citizen Koba]

you are just an excuse-blurting shlthead

every fighter EVER, is 100% responsible - and accountable - for his own resume... as the bold proves

if your guy did not have the balls, that is on him... oh, and on you... grow up you creepy little hero-worshiping clown

this is how a real fighter behaves, pay attention to 1.45...






is this where you bash Ward... to somehow elevate Golovkin... ?

You just don't get it do ya? You think every fighter can get every fight he wants irrespective of what the market thinks he's worth. Regardless of who his promoter's doing business with? How dumb are you? This is a general point and not about Golovkin, but as an example you think HBO would have paid as much for GGG - Maravilla as they would for Cotto - Maravilla? So how the fuck GGG gonna get Sergio in the ring no matter how much he wants him? If Saunders wants $3 mil and HBO have $3.5 mil in the pot for that fight, what GGGs gonna fight for $500K? You gonna show me some other hero who did anything remotely similar? If any promoter can't afford to pay opponents what they want and still make a profit how is that the fighter's fault? It's economic realities, man, if you're too ****** to see that ain't much point in trying to explain it to you.


Sure you can change promoter - hell GGG did it himself, as did Ward... in both cases it cost 'em years of their careers and for many lesser or just less fortunate fighters it can spell the damn end of their career. But what then? Are you suddenly worth as much as a superstar like Canelo? Can you suddenly sell 100s of thousands of PPVs? No. You're in the same boat before more or less, just with a different guy trying to match you up. Hell if you're just spent a coupla years in court your value might have even gone down as Wards did following his dispute with Goosen from the high when he was on the verge of superstardom after the Super 6. You ain't suddenly auitomatically worth any more for sure, although a different promoter might have more $$$s to throw at the issue. I mean look at damn Andrade or someone, or Jermall or Saunders or whomever. You saying they don't want the best fights? You're saying they all lack balls? Cos obviously they're responsible for not getting the fights they want according to you.

Hell, in fact where are all these dudes fighting great opponents each time out? ....Oh yeah, they ain't nowhere in sight, cept maybe it the lowest divisions where they don't usually get paid enough for anyone to earn a living unless the best actually do fight the best. Take out one or two superstars who got the money, the unconditional support of the WBC, the built in fanbase and Vegas behind 'em and you find that pretty much everyone is in the same kinda boat as Golovkin.

Money, man, it's all about the money. As has been said it's just business masquerading as a sport.



And why the hell would I be bashing on Ward, I got all the respect in the world for the dude. Doesn't mean I automatically think he's right in whatever he says though.

[aboutfkntime]

You just don't get it do ya? You think every fighter can get every fight he wants irrespective of what the market thinks he's worth. Regardless of who his promoter's doing business with? How dumb are you? This is a general point and not about Golovkin, but as an example you think HBO would have paid as much for GGG - Maravilla as they would for Cotto - Maravilla? So how the fuck GGG gonna get Sergio in the ring no matter how much he wants him? If Saunders wants $3 mil and HBO have $3.5 mil in the pot for that fight, what GGGs gonna fight for $500K? You gonna show me some other hero who did anything remotely similar? If any promoter can't afford to pay opponents what they want and still make a profit how is that the fighter's fault? It's economic realities, man, if you're too ****** to see that ain't much point in trying to explain it to you.


Sure you can change promoter - hell GGG did it himself, as did Ward... in both cases it cost 'em years of their careers and for many lesser or just less fortunate fighters it can spell the damn end of their career. But what then? Are you suddenly worth as much as a superstar like Canelo? Can you suddenly sell 100s of thousands of PPVs? No. You're in the same boat before more or less, just with a different guy trying to match you up. Hell if you're just spent a coupla years in court your value might have even gone down as Wards did following his dispute with Goosen from the high when he was on the verge of superstardom after the Super 6. You ain't suddenly auitomatically worth any more for sure, although a different promoter might have more $$$s to throw at the issue. I mean look at damn Andrade or someone, or Jermall or Saunders or whomever. You saying they don't want the best fights? You're saying they all lack balls? Cos obviously they're responsible for not getting the fights they want according to you.

Hell, in fact where are all these dudes fighting great opponents each time out? ....Oh yeah, they ain't nowhere in sight, cept maybe it the lowest divisions where they don't usually get paid enough for anyone to earn a living unless the best actually do fight the best. Take out one or two superstars who got the money, the unconditional support of the WBC, the built in fanbase and Vegas behind 'em and you find that pretty much everyone is in the same kinda boat as Golovkin.

Money, man, it's all about the money. As has been said it's just business masquerading as a sport.

And why the hell would I be bashing on Ward, I got all the respect in the world for the dude. Doesn't mean I automatically think he's right in whatever he says though.

stop blurting out garbage

kid, Bullshltkin did not get ANY of those fights

and the reason why is CLEARLY obvious... he walked the other way

ran around for YEARS saying... " anyone from 154-168 " ...

but then... killed FOUR HUGE fights over weight LMAO

you cannot make that shlt up... and yet, some cretin will always crawl out of his hole to justify it

you are a disgraceful bum-licking fanboy

#bumlickerforlife