Rank the following Middleweights

[BoloShot]

And it's not just HW as I can think of greater single division rulers.

The heck is wrong with this kid? Aka boxing historian

You tell me who's beaten a number of still top level all time greats in one division like him then? Holmes certainly isn't that guy. Ali is the only one you could argue that but even then I don't rate him as highly as others do.

[BoloShot]

Look Mr. Historian, he's not even a better MW than Hagler, let alone Greb or Robinson.

And he damn sure isn't the best "anything" of his division of all time as I can think of several fighters who were better in their respective divisions than Monzon.

And you saying he has a better jab than Larry Holmes should = death by firing squad as that's one of the most asinine posts I've ever seen in my life.

You clearly have never watched him and you didn't even know of his exploits so how the **** can you be so sure of that? You have a casual's grasp of his achievements. It's also debatable that Hagler was better than him. They're both up there but it's no certainty. That's why most people here don't have him above monzon for sure.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Sugar Ray Robinson was more than a middleweight GOAT, he was the p4p GOAT based on his exploits from welterweight to light heavyweight. Greb is a similar case, he had success at middleweight and light heavyweight. In terms of single division rulers, Monzón is king above all. But you're right, those guys are better than Monzón. Although h2h that may be a different story. I'm 22, why you asking? I'm just an avid fan and a boxer who tries to learn as much as possible about the history of boxing. Through my years of following it I've encountered many people who are both well versed on boxing and those who are still learning about it. I kinda pegged you for a fella who's on the path to learning plenty about it rather than the former. I'm not insulting you.

It’s honestly not worth bothering having a serious discussion with that Chollo Vista troll.

He’ll just try and twist your words and turn it into a petty argument. He’s one of those real sad b**tards you get on forums like these.

He got exposed for his lack of knowledge and now he’s all emotional about it...

[Chollo Vista]

It's always almost impossibly difficult to compare fighters from different eras.
That said, among Monzon's 9 draws, 7 were when he was fighting in his home country, where he was a national hero.

Bingo

Someone explain to me how a guy who had 3 losses and 9 draws is the best ever to dominate a single division considering boxing's rich rich history of fighters?

Ali, Holmes, Robinson, Spinks, Duran, Chavez Sr, Louis, etc etc... Too many to name.

But we're talking about Monzon?

A guy with a better jab than Larry Holmes?

[BoloShot]

It’s honestly not worth bothering having a serious discussion with that Chollo Vista troll.

He’ll just try and twist your words and turn it into a petty argument. He’s one of those real sad b**tards you get on forums like these.

He got exposed for his lack of knowledge and now he’s all emotional about it...

Dude, I couldn't have put his ****ty bad faith arguing tactics better than yourself. Thanks for explaining his general demeanour to me. I think he might be put on ignore for this.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

No you got insulted. You only went on the offensive when I said you clearly don't know your **** if you don't know about Monzón. Which is entirely true.

Exactly this...😂 He’s emotionally fragile.

[Boxing_1013]

Good topic.

1) I don't really see how one could say what Bhop did at 160 is any better than what GGG did...people get on GGG for his opposition level, but Bhop's run at 160 makes GGG's list at 160 look like Bhop's run post 160...if that makes sense lol.

2) No one has as great of a win at 160 as Hagler's win over Hearns...of course Tommy was stopped a few times in his career, by lesser fighters than Hagler as well...but the way in which Hagler won that fight was exceptional and has to be mentioned...I am not sure if any other MW all-time takes those shots from Hearns and is still on their feet. Hagler's run outside of that though is not tremendously exceptional to me...it is otherwise a list of good wins over good fighters, and a couple poor performances as well (which to be fair were early in his career/or his last fight vs a (smaller) legend in SRL). I don't really see the angle that his run outside of Hearns was that exceptional.

3) Either on film or resume I have never really understood the fawning over Monzon...not to mention that he fought 80+% of his fights at home in Argentina...if Pac-man was fighting 80% of his fights in the Phillipines, I would similarly look to his accomplishments with a bit of skepticism..to be fair, Monzon did travel often later in his career for his bigger fights.

But yeah on film or resume, I just don't really see the anointing of Monzon to this unreachable level...his two wins over Griffith kind of sum up my view of Monzon - two good wins, one at home, and one neutral...he did stop Griffith at home, one of only 2 times Griffith was stopped...but Griffith himself lost 24 times...and had lost 10+ times before each of those fights with Monzon...so yeah just never really understood the over-the-top praise imo on Monzon, based on resume or film.

3) Sergio's wins over Williams and Pavlik at the start of his run are his standouts...kind of depends on how you view those fighters and wins. Otherwise his run looks like a run of 5 fights GGG would have during his run, albeit winning less impressively than GGG did during his run in those fights...and with a loss to Cotto (on one leg admittedly) thrown in.

To sum it up...I think you have to put Sergio 5th...based on longevity mainly...as most resumes are made up of fights vs solid pros, and Sergio only had about 6-8 fights at MW...Monzon Hagler Hopkins and GGG had a more similar number of fights vs good-solid opposition at MW, more or less about 20 each...Hagler with the highest high, but maybe the lowest lows as well...BHop's probably the weakest list of opposition...with a couple good wins over great little guys...and then 2 losses to a good fighter.

Monzon the least blemishes of any of those guys (discounting the early draws and losses), but I'm not really convinced of the level of his opposition (for all talk about GGG's and BHop's opponent level, I don't think by and large that Monzon's was that exceptional...GGG with no exceptional official win, a lot of dominant wins over good fighters, and then the 2 controversial Canelo fights (losses), and a controversial Derevy fight (win) in there as well.

I don't see a huge amount of separation of accomplishment at MW between those big 4 but I'm sure some will go crazy about that lol.

[Boxing_1013]

It's always almost impossibly difficult to compare fighters from different eras.
That said, among Monzon's 9 draws, 7 were when he was fighting in his home country, where he was a national hero.

Well said...meant to mention that in my post as well...very hard to compare eras, either on resume or ability.

[Chollo Vista]

You tell me who's beaten a number of still top level all time greats in one division like him then? Holmes certainly isn't that guy. Ali is the only one you could argue that but even then I don't rate him as highly as others do.

Dude, it's not "who", but "when".... Many of the guy's you mentioned were already beaten LMAO So who beat them before Monzon?

And how do you get 9 draws fighting in your own country as an ATG star?

Just listen to yourself man.

And LMAO at even mentioning Monzons slow as mallassas jab to Holmes.

You should be carried to a firing squad

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Bingo

Someone explain to me how a guy who had 3 losses and 9 draws is the best ever to dominate a single division considering boxing's rich rich history of fighters?

Ali, Holmes, Robinson, Spinks, Duran, Chavez Sr, Louis, etc etc... Too many to name.

But we're talking about Monzon?

A guy with a better jab than Larry Holmes?

Robinson had 19 losses...

You’ve literally admitted you’ve never watched Monzon. So how can your opinion hold any validity?

You’ve Boxrec’d him and are clinging on to those “9 draws” as a pathetic counter argument.

What a m*ng...😭