Leonard-Duran II: What Say You?

[BoloShot]

It was close on the official cards too I think, it was a genuine emotional breakdown in the ring a là McCall minus the bawling his eyes out.

[CubanGuyNYC]

It's definitely a false myth that developed over the years that Leonard was beating Duran easily and that's why Duran quit. It's just not at all what happened. IIRC I had Leonard winning when Duran quit, but it was a close fight and nowhere near over. I think it was a difference of a couple rounds.

And really, that's why Duran quitting is such a shocking black mark on his record that people always hold against him. If he was getting dominated for 8 rounds, people would understand him quitting.

Leonard was more cautious, Duran was still winning rounds. Leonard started showboating which may give people the impression that he was totally in control? And maybe Leonard would have taken control in the second half to win easily. We don't know, because Duran quit. What we actually saw was a close fight that didn't have the energy of the first fight because Leonard was so cautious and Duran, like OP said, just did not have the same fire.

Definitely the myth revolves around round seven, when “Sugar” made Duran look a little silly. That, and the fact that Roberto quit in the very next round, made people think it was because he was humiliated. But viewed in its entirety, the fight was very close. Duran has no one to blame but himself, but it’s a shame the bout ended as it did; it could’ve been another classic. And, in fact, it is, in its own inglorious way.

[CubanGuyNYC]

He was underprepared and
he knew it. When Leonard started taunting him he knew he would not win the fight and continuing would make him look foolish. Better to quit and end the fight on his terms than to continue and be humiliated by a man that he did not like on a personal level. I think that's where his mind was at. What is really remarkable is he went on and survived that decision. Not only did he survive it, it added to his mystique.

Maybe you’re right about that. Perhaps Roberto didn’t want any part of it. It’s the prevailing sentiment. I just didn’t see any reason for him to feel that way, on the outside looking in. I thought Duran was doing just fine.

And you’re right again. Who would’ve thought Roberto would salvage his career after that debacle? It’s a life lesson for all of us.

[CubanGuyNYC]

one question do you fight to your advantages or to your opponents ? Leonard brawled and lost a razor thin decision in a fight that really could have been scored a draw ...in the 2nd fight he used footwork , speed and lateral movement and stayed away from the ropes and Durán just could not get him where he wanted.
If Durán never quit he would have lost a wide decision because Leonard figured him out and was already up midway.
Duran could not win that fight

See, that’s the thing, you can’t necessarily predict the outcome of a fight based on earlier rounds. Just one example using Leonard himself: he was being easily beaten by Hearns in their first fight, until Ray caught up with him in the sixth. Tommy reasserted himself for a few rounds, then Leonard finished him. I agree that Ray appeared to be imposing his will in the second fight with Duran, and that Roberto’s vibe may not have allowed a turnaround, but it’s not a foregone conclusion by any means.

But to answer your question, you of course fight to your advantages. I agree that Leonard did a great job in the initial bout, fighting out of character; but although he fought more to his taste in the rematch, I didn’t see him ahead on the cards going into the eighth and final round.

[The plunger man]

Duran was given short notice that he was to rematch Leonard. He had to lose 30+ pounds in two months. This, after abusing his body and partying very hard. The original rematch was anticipated in January or February of the following year. Leonard's people got wind of his condition and pushed the rematch early, and Duran's manager screwed him over by accepting a November date.

https://********/2__UCGTVqL4

Now this should put a stop to Leonard forcing Duran in to a fight he wasn’t ready for...this interview was done in early August 1980 a full 14 weeks before there November fight.
Duran knew he had to fight Leonard pretty soon as Leonard had an immediate rematch in the 1st contract.
Duran was always a bad trainer and often skipped gym sessions to the point of Ray Arcel quitting às his trainer
Watch it and come back and apologise for bull**** lol

[CubanGuyNYC]

It was close on the official cards too I think, it was a genuine emotional breakdown in the ring a là McCall minus the bawling his eyes out.

Don’t know how accurate this is, but I found this in one source (the higher score is for Leonard):

Mike Jacobs 66 - 68
Jean Deswerts 66 - 68
James Brimmell 66 - 67

It was a close fight up until the dramatic ending. The passage of time has created the myth (as was mentioned before) that Ray outclassed Roberto so badly that the former quit.

[TheMyspaceDayz]

I’ll have to rewatch it but what I always felt was that the partying did affect him physically. He knew it and as a realist also knew he had to get Leonard out of their early. When Leonard started to establish himself as the better conditioned athlete who could keep this up forever, Durán saw the uphill battle in front of him and said fugh that.

[The plunger man]

See, that’s the thing, you can’t necessarily predict the outcome of a fight based on earlier rounds. Just one example using Leonard himself: he was being easily beaten by Hearns in their first fight, until Ray caught up with him in the sixth. Tommy reasserted himself for a few rounds, then Leonard finished him. I agree that Ray appeared to be imposing his will in the second fight with Duran, and that Roberto’s vibe may not have allowed a turnaround, but it’s not a foregone conclusion by any means.

But to answer your question, you of course fight to your advantages. I agree that Leonard did a great job in the initial bout, fighting out of character; but although he fought more to his taste in the rematch, I didn’t see him ahead on the cards going into the eighth and final round.

I don’t think either Duran or Leonard would have buckled and been stopped ..they knew eachother to well , hearns was different he did fold if he was under immense pressure and we saw that with him against Leonard . Barkley , roldan and kitchen hurting him
I look at the 1st fight as Leonard fighting Duran’s fight and he lost a close decision.
Look at the very start of each fight and it was totally different.
Leonard went straight for him and refused to back off in the 1st fight ...2nd Leonard used lateral movement and never stayed long on the ropes.
What I’m trying to say Duran dictated the tempo of the 1st fight and where it was fought in the 2nd fight he was not allowed to do it and unlike the 1st fight Leonard was already ahead and Duran was intelligent enough to see it and I think he just didn’t want to be dominated a lose a wide decision to Leonard.
That is where the mind tricks come in and taunting by Leonard probably pushed Duran over the edge and he just flipped

[Tatabanya]

It was just a momentary mental blackout.

If you look at Duran immediately after quitting, at one point he regains his fighting stance as if ready to resume fighting. It was too late. He was pretty confused in that moment.

[champion4ever]

Their first fight appeared to have drained all the energy, passion and intensity out of Duran. He was never the same fighter after the "Brawl in Montreal" bout.

After that win he became very content and complacent. He lost his drive and will to succeed. By the 'No Mas' fight he was both a broken and ruined fighter.

It was so con****uous in his subsequent title bout with Wilfred Benitez at 154. He showed no fire or desire whatsoever in the fight; As if he was there only to collect a payday because he didn't train for it. The pre-Leonard Roberto Duran would have knocked Benitez spark out.

However, he showed no sense of urgency or anything that night.