Wilder was on his way to surpassing Wlad

[FinitoxDinamita]

Wtf is that haha wilder is nowhere near Wlad.

[Monzon99]

You are insane. Wilder could not beat Ibragimov, Brock, Thompson, Austin Byrd, Peter...I don't Wilder could beat any of WKs defense victims.

[Marchegiano]

I think it's important to add context by looking at what was going on around that time, specifically who the fighters on that list fought instead of Wlad and vice versa (courtesy of Boxrec)

Lennox Lewis
2001: showed up out of shape and was upset by Hasim Rahman, then returns later that year to avenge that loss in dominant fashion.
2002: Wins a long overdue mega-fight against Mike Tyson
2003: Finishes his career with a brutal, tougher-than-expected (and somewhat controversial) stoppage against Wlad's brother Vitali

Verdict: If Lennox doesn't lose against Rahman then perhaps Wlad gets a shot that year. Lewis-Tyson was a dual PPV event and I don't blame Lennox for calling it quits after the war with Vitali. Sometimes the stars just don't align and I think that's what happened with Lennox and Wlad, even though their careers overlapped.

Tyson
Tyson was more of an attraction than a fighter by 2001 and the fight with Lennox was the biggest attraction at the time. If Mike was gonna lose badly at the top level then he wanted to get paid as much as possible for the trouble.

Chris Byrd
You already covered this in your post

Hasim Rahman
Split two fights with Lennox Lewis as stated above in 2001, then lost to Evander Holyfield in 2002. Wlad would eventually stop an old Rahman years later.

Kirk Johnson
Kirk Johnson would have been a better opponent than the guys Wlad fought in 2001, I will give you that. Johnson's opponents were'nt that great either though.

Holyfield
Went 1-1-1 with John Ruiz in 2000-2001, beat Rahman in 2002 and then lost decisively to Chris Byrd and James Toney. I doubt that Wlad would have gotten much credit for beating Holyfield at that time when he was so far past his best.

John Ruiz
Was tied up with Holyfield, then won by DQ over Kirk Johnson before losing his title to Roy Jones Jr. on PPV

Jameel McCline
Wlad stopped him in 2002

Fres Oquendo
Same as Kirk Johnson, I guess Wlad could have fought him but Oquendo's opponents weren't that great either, plus got stopped by David Tua in 2002

David Tua
Lost to Chris Byrd in 2001

In summary, I think the best Wlad could have done in 2001 was to face Fres Oquendo and Kirk Johnson given what everyone else was doing. Those names are better than the guys he fought but it's not like they were huge misses.

Also, I think it's fair to say that Wlad didn't really hit his stride until around 2005, after surviving a tough fight with Sam Peter. After that he was dominant for a decade until running into Tyson Fury in 2015.

As for Haye, Povetkin, and Pulev, they were the top available contenders according to Ring magazine in 2011, 2013 and 2014 respectively. He was never going to fight his brother of course and I believe that he was the best heavyweight of the 2010's.

That is fair, but, you don't think it's fair to inturn list Wilder's excuses for not gathering names?

You did well to keep yourself out of it and allow the reader to make their choice based on the info, I respect that.

Why do we simply bury Wilder while we absolve Wlad? He did not go after the best names, he did not go after the best names available, he only ever fought a mandatory and since his mandatories are exclusively lackluster fighters his resume is in turn lackluster, but, we excuse this because he fought his mandos and we say his mandos were the best.....despite not being even close to best names overlapping Wlad's career.




not much credit for an old Holyfield is exactly infinitely more than he currently gets for Charles.



I'm not saying we should fine tooth comb Wlad to knock him down a peg. I'm saying there is hypocrisy in how harsh people are with Wilder while promoting Wlad as some kind of hunter for trouble. Dude stayed well clear of trouble and fought only mandatories. His entire career.

[Vasyl’s dad]

Wilder still has a chance to add to his legacy!

Honestly if he would’ve stopped Fury while he was the favorite, no one would care and said it was a lucky punch or that Fury changing trainers was the reason Wilder won!

Now, that Wilder lost in the way he did and with Fury looking the best he’s ever had and him being the number 1 heavyweight in the world and with Wilder being a significant underdog in the trilogy, a win for Wilder now would definitely give him more credibility since his back is against the wall against all odds!

Coming back from crushing defeats and winning against all odds is what boxing is all about and is what makes the heart of a world champion!

Wlad did it
Tyson did it
Holyfield did it
Ali did it
Foreman did it
And so many others in different eras and weight classes!

Difference is, Wilder can’t box, those guys could.

[GhostofDempsey]

Legacies aren't built on numbers alone You must take into account quality of opposition. This is where Deontay has no legacy. Other than going down in history as Michael Grant 2.0, and even that is being generous as Grant had better wins. I would even pick a prime McCline and Briggs to beat Wilder.

[QueensburyRules]

in legacy......and now that he lost, i don't know where that puts him?

- -Puts him sharing U BigBoy trainers.

[emceetns]

That is fair, but, you don't think it's fair to inturn list Wilder's excuses for not gathering names?

You did well to keep yourself out of it and allow the reader to make their choice based on the info, I respect that.

Why do we simply bury Wilder while we absolve Wlad? He did not go after the best names, he did not go after the best names available, he only ever fought a mandatory and since his mandatories are exclusively lackluster fighters his resume is in turn lackluster, but, we excuse this because he fought his mandos and we say his mandos were the best.....despite not being even close to best names overlapping Wlad's career.




not much credit for an old Holyfield is exactly infinitely more than he currently gets for Charles.



I'm not saying we should fine tooth comb Wlad to knock him down a peg. I'm saying there is hypocrisy in how harsh people are with Wilder while promoting Wlad as some kind of hunter for trouble. Dude stayed well clear of trouble and fought only mandatories. His entire career.

I understand what you're saying and people forget that Wilder was set to face Alexander Povetkin in 2016 before Povetkin failed a drug test. As for resumes to this point, i think that Wilder's and Fury's are more top-heavy whereas Joshua has beaten more top-10 guys without facing the absolute cream of the crop (Fury, Wilder). As for Wlad, i think he also came along in an awkward "in-between" era. After the 90's guys (Lennox, Holyfield, Foreman, Tyson) but before Fury, Wilder, and Joshua. He fought and lost to Fury and Wilder of course but a prime Wlad would have done better and possibly won those fights, especially against AJ.

[emceetns]

That is fair, but, you don't think it's fair to inturn list Wilder's excuses for not gathering names?

You did well to keep yourself out of it and allow the reader to make their choice based on the info, I respect that.

Why do we simply bury Wilder while we absolve Wlad? He did not go after the best names, he did not go after the best names available, he only ever fought a mandatory and since his mandatories are exclusively lackluster fighters his resume is in turn lackluster, but, we excuse this because he fought his mandos and we say his mandos were the best.....despite not being even close to best names overlapping Wlad's career.




not much credit for an old Holyfield is exactly infinitely more than he currently gets for Charles.



I'm not saying we should fine tooth comb Wlad to knock him down a peg. I'm saying there is hypocrisy in how harsh people are with Wilder while promoting Wlad as some kind of hunter for trouble. Dude stayed well clear of trouble and fought only mandatories. His entire career.

I will have to break down Wilder a little later. At work on a lunch break now lol

[MoneyKasha]

That is fair, but, you don't think it's fair to inturn list Wilder's excuses for not gathering names?

You did well to keep yourself out of it and allow the reader to make their choice based on the info, I respect that.

Why do we simply bury Wilder while we absolve Wlad? He did not go after the best names, he did not go after the best names available, he only ever fought a mandatory and since his mandatories are exclusively lackluster fighters his resume is in turn lackluster, but, we excuse this because he fought his mandos and we say his mandos were the best.....despite not being even close to best names overlapping Wlad's career.




not much credit for an old Holyfield is exactly infinitely more than he currently gets for Charles.



I'm not saying we should fine tooth comb Wlad to knock him down a peg. I'm saying there is hypocrisy in how harsh people are with Wilder while promoting Wlad as some kind of hunter for trouble. Dude stayed well clear of trouble and fought only mandatories. His entire career.

you have no idea what you are talking about


Wlad's opponents who were in the top 10 at the time

Wlad's top 10 opponents:
Schulz
Byrd I
McCline
DaVarryl Williamson
Peter I
Byrd II
Brock
Brewster II
Ibragimov
Thompson I
Rahman
Chagaev
Chambers
Peter II
Haye
Thompson II
Povetkin
Pulev
Fury
Joshua




Wilder's top 10

Stiverne I
Ortiz I
Fury I
Ortiz II
Fury II



Wlad fought alot better people

[chirorickyp]

Wlad was humiliated by Corrie Sanders almost as bad as the Joshua shalaking by Ruiz. He wanted no part of Sanders again. He was a one dimensional grab hold jab and right hand. Fought poor opposition perhaps worse than Wilder. He ruined the heavyweight division with his safe style against nothing opponents. Wilder is a warrior who goes for gold Vlad put us to sleep and turned people off to boxing to the point that no one in the US covered that crap. I'm glad he's gone. Vitali on the other hand is one of the most underatted fighters. Lost few rounds in his entire career and was far superior to his brother.