What stars has PBC created?

[Eff Pandas]

The point was that Adrian Broner was promoted by Golden Boy Promotions. This thread is about trying to name PBC fighters, that qualify as stars, who have ZERO connections to Golden Boy.

Something that people are apparently having a very hard time doing.

Who's been around only 6 years & has created stars without any previous boxer connection to another promoter? And one year was basically lost cuz of covid19.

Idk how long MTK has been around, but they've only recently seemed to get serious in recent years & all their stars got previous connections to others.

And the sport isn't like it was when guys like Bob & Don got into it. I mean ffs iirc Don's first fight, or among them at minumum, was Ali vs Foreman. They basically had a monopoly on the sport for decades with TV deals. Nowadays there are multiple players, multiple networks & millions of things vying for the attention of boxing fans & the public at large. Its a whole other thing. Bob & Don or GBP wouldn't be having stars "created" 100% by them if they'd only been around since 2015.

[Curt Henning]

Whats the levels of stardom as best as you can explain it?

As best as I understand what you are saying before you break it down better I'd still argue "emerging stars" or "lower level stars" make themselves too.

Like a guy like Devin Haney for example I'd argue isn't a big star & I'd doubt many would disagree with that take, but he's got some level of popularity that he's created himself through his social media engagement, his personality & his fighting style among other things that are him or are of his own doing. Everything that makes a guy a star or has the potential to enhance his level of stardom is IT factor type stuff. All Eddie, Devin's dad or anyone else involved in his career are doing are getting him fights & putting him in the best possible position for him to have the success that can make him as big of a name as his talent & personality can make him & potentially a future superstar of the sport that the intangibles of Devin's talent & personality will ultimately decide if they catch enough fire with boxing fans & the public at large.

i can agree with most of that to a large degree....i just look at guys like shane, roy and bernard.....they just could never really put themselves over the hump to become big...roy had the best chance at he was big...but he prob could have been even bigger

i look at guys like bud and spence....neither guy is all that menacing...they just lack as for as personality and look....buds doing pretty well but i think thats because haymon has done some things in cozying up to jerry jones and pushing that whole thing...along with him being on the cowboys sidelines on CBS and on thanksgiving....but bud and spence are pretty dry ......

think in terms of what arums vision for floyd was...and how floyd basically went to him and wanted to change it...and bob was like "eh no thanks i like my way"....bob didnt have the vision to see there could more and bigger....bob, who had been around as long as anyone...and as successful as anyone couldnt see the bigger picture ......somtimes the people around you can have a negative effect too

i look at a guy like deshaun in the NFL...he wants out because he has no faith in the organization and theyve given him no reason to belief they are competent and can get the right guys around him to build a winner...which is ultimately what he will be judged on..."was he a winner"....he has a legit gripe...and he only gets one shot at a career.....whereas someone like russ wilson has won and has been successful....when youve been around as long as russ your team will face a bit of a rebuild...they will be in transition....the hawks have had to rebuild that D that was once a huge part of their success....he may have a beef with pete carroll from a philisophical POV on offense...but carroll and the org have earned a chance to do the neccessary work to get it all done....theyve shown they can...whereas the texans org has given watson no reason to have faith in them

i agree...it takes a village...it also takes a big picture vision and not everyone has that....some guys are content that theyve already made more money than theyve ever dreamed of

[Eff Pandas]

wilder made like 70 mil in two years and some dont think hes a "star" qualifier...lol...you cant name any other american born active fighter thats made 70 mil in a career let alone two years...lol

but i guess that was oscars doing since wilder was with golden boy years ago when schaeffer and haymon were running golden boy lol

No doubt.

And good point on the Richard Schaeffer stuff. I know people love to hate Schaeffer these days, but the reality is he was running GBP from most accounts I've seen while Oscar was sticking kitchen utensils up his ass & being coked up/drunk all the time.

[ShoulderRoll]

Who's been around only 6 years & has created stars without any previous boxer connection to another promoter? And one year was basically lost cuz of covid19.

Idk how long MTK has been around, but they've only recently seemed to get serious in recent years & all their stars got previous connections to others.

And the sport isn't like it was when guys like Bob & Don got into it. I mean ffs iirc Don's first fight, or among them at minumum, was Ali vs Foreman. They basically had a monopoly on the sport for decades with TV deals. Nowadays there are multiple players, multiple networks & millions of things vying for the attention of boxing fans & the public at large. Its a whole other thing. Bob & Don or GBP wouldn't be having stars "created" 100% by them if they'd only been around since 2015.

It's been 6 years since 2015. That's right.

De La Hoya lost almost his entire roster to Haymon yet has been able to bring up more potential stars than PBC in that time. He knows what he's doing. Just like Bob Arum does.

[Eff Pandas]

i can agree with most of that to a large degree....i just look at guys like shane, roy and bernard.....they just could never really put themselves over the hump to become big...roy had the best chance at he was big...but he prob could have been even bigger

Do you think those guys didn't reach superstardom, although thats debatable but obviously they weren't Manny, Floyd & Oscar big, because of promoters? Or do you think if RJJ had been with Bob or Oscar he'd have been huge?

I just don't see ANY evidence that promoters hold any power in making a star beyond not sabotaging a guy with talent from getting the fights he deserves to be in.

Even when I think about how guys from certain TV platforms became big like when HBO basically had all the stars or when network TV would have stars on during the afternoon it was still the boxer who made themselves a star OR didn't make themselves a star cuz plenty of guys fought on HBO or network TV & never got Mike Tyson big.

i look at guys like bud and spence....neither guy is all that menacing...they just lack as for as personality and look....buds doing pretty well but i think thats because haymon has done some things in cozying up to jerry jones and pushing that whole thing...along with him being on the cowboys sidelines on CBS and on thanksgiving....but bud and spence are pretty dry ......

I definitely feel this doe. Bud & Errol still don't feel as big as I feel they should be. But to me this is less about them & more about the battle for attention EVERYTHING has these days. A lot of things feel smaller than they used to. Even things like the Super Bowl feel smaller than they used to. Ratings are definitely suggesting this across the board I'd argue. So I think in previous eras Bud & Errol would probably be bigger than we see them & if SRL & Hagler were around today they wouldn't be as big as they were in the 80's when less things were trying to get our attention & time.

think in terms of what arums vision for floyd was...and how floyd basically went to him and wanted to change it...and bob was like "eh no thanks i like my way"....bob didnt have the vision to see there could more and bigger....bob, who had been around as long as anyone...and as successful as anyone couldnt see the bigger picture ......somtimes the people around you can have a negative effect too

True. Like I've mentioned I don't think a promoter can make you, but a promoter can definitely sabotage you. I'd argue Bob has done that multiple times, think Mikey Garcia, think how Bob talks about Bud lately, think about what could go down with Teofimo.

i look at a guy like deshaun in the NFL...he wants out because he has no faith in the organization and theyve given him no reason to belief they are competent and can get the right guys around him to build a winner...which is ultimately what he will be judged on..."was he a winner"....he has a legit gripe...and he only gets one shot at a career.....whereas someone like russ wilson has won and has been successful....when youve been around as long as russ your team will face a bit of a rebuild...they will be in transition....the hawks have had to rebuild that D that was once a huge part of their success....he may have a beef with pete carroll from a philisophical POV on offense...but carroll and the org have earned a chance to do the neccessary work to get it all done....theyve shown they can...whereas the texans org has given watson no reason to have faith in them

i agree...it takes a village...it also takes a big picture vision and not everyone has that....some guys are content that theyve already made more money than theyve ever dreamed of

Oh sh^t man Idksafootball so that comparison is lost on me. But I'd argue less that it takes a village, cuz I think all boxers need a village for any success at a high level & more about the intangibles of ones talent & personality that makes one succeed or fail at superstardom or any solid level of stardom where you are headlining cards & making 7 digits a fight.

[Eff Pandas]

It's been 6 hears since 2015. That's right.

De La Hoya lost almost his entire roster to Haymon yet has been able to bring up more potential stars than PBC in that time. He knows what he's doing. Just like Bob Arum does.

GBP has been around decades. They aren't new. Bob has been around since before Oscar was born he's not new.

I'm talking entirely new ent^ties coming into the game with no connections, no rep, hell no fighters on day 1 that aren't someone elses. Thats a whole other thing then acting like everyone was on some sorta even playing field in 2015 when PBC came into the game. I'm not even sure who was the first debuting guy PBC signed. Maybe Marcos Forestal??? And I'm not sure they were signing a lot of them out of the gate so technically there are probably few guys who've been with PBC & only PBC for 6 years.

[ShoulderRoll]

GBP has been around decades. They aren't new. Bob has been around since before Oscar was born he's not new.

I'm talking entirely new ent^ties coming into the game with no connections, no rep, hell no fighters on day 1 that aren't someone elses. Thats a whole other thing then acting like everyone was on some sorta even playing field in 2015 when PBC came into the game. I'm not even sure who was the first debuting guy PBC signed. Maybe Marcos Forestal??? And I'm not sure they were signing a lot of them out of the gate so technically there are probably few guys who've been with PBC & only PBC for 6 years.

Well, whatever the reasons it seems you at least agree that PBC isn't on the same level as GBP and Top Rank when it comes to building stars.

Some of the guys in this thread have been fighting tooth and nail against that idea.

[Eff Pandas]

Well, whatever the reasons it seems you at least agree that PBC isn't on the same level as GBP and Top Rank when it comes to building stars.

Some of the guys in this thread have been fighting tooth and nail against that idea.

As stated I disagree with the entire premise anyone builds stars except the guy who becomes a star. That's just not how it works.

Idk why this unproven theory gets brought up with such casualness & confidence. All GBP, TR or PBC or anyone else can do is hinder a potential stars progress. And that would be a real discussion to be had cuz I think PBC does do things that hinder stars from becoming stars sooner or as big as they could be. Most notably I think they overvalue shorter money & less risk for bigger money & more risk to a fault not unlike TR overvalues in house fights over making big fights across promotion & platform. But that's the models each operates under. TR is working for TR to maximize profits & PBC is working for boxers to maximize profits.

Or if you disagree with the premise stars build themselves tell me how Bob made Oscar a star or how GBP made Canelo a star?

[ShoulderRoll]

As stated I disagree with the entire premise anyone builds stars except the guy who becomes a star. That's just not how it works.

Idk why this unproven theory gets brought up with such casualness & confidence. All GBP, TR or PBC or anyone else can do is hinder a potential stars progress. And that would be a real discussion to be had cuz I think PBC does do things that hinder stars from becoming stars sooner or as big as they could be. Most notably I think they overvalue shorter money & less risk for bigger money & more risk to a fault not unlike TR overvalues in house fights over making big fights across promotion & platform. But that's the models each operates under. TR is working for TR to maximize profits & PBC is working for boxers to maximize profits.

Or if you disagree with the premise stars build themselves tell me how Bob made Oscar a star or how GBP made Canelo a star?

Good matchmakers. They know how to pick fights for their prospects that will help them grow while not taking losses or getting them beat up too much. GBP and Top Rank have some of the best matchmakers in the business. PBC has nothing, just a bunch of different promoters that they rotate through seemingly at random.

To build a star it's also necessary to gain a following for a fighter. Regularly featuring them on cards, consistently getting them face time with the media, and generally keeping them in the public eye so that people can easily follow their story. PBC has been crap at this because they seemingly have no end game in mind for a lot of their guys and because early on they network-hopped a lot. If you were trying to follow a particular boxer you had no clue when you could expect to see him again or on what channel. With short attention spans these days the average fan will just move on to something else.

[Azteka]

PBC obviously has no idea what it's doing. GBP already building up Vergil Ortiz and Ryan Garcia after building up Canelo previously. PBC doesn't even have a current fighter, other than Wilder, that they have built up, and what's worse is they have a lot of fighters on their roster, unlike GBP. GBP doing more with less.

Top Rank is probably in the best position. They did a fantastic job feeding Lomachenko to Lopez. Now they have a superstar on their hands. Possibly the same with Oscar Valdez after his great win over Berchelt. Top Rank is also doing very well with Fury, unlike how PBC handled Wilder.

PBC just doesn't know how to build up stars.