Oscar calls out PBC

[boliodogs]

I here a lot about how Haymon robbed Oscar's fighters. That is impossible. Fighters are not a flock of sheep to be stolen. They are grown men and must make a decision to leave Oscar and go with Haymon or stay with Oscar. Haymon can't make these boxers do a damn thing they don't want to do. Instead of falsely accusing Haymon of stealing his fighters Oscar should ask why these fighters left him of their own free will. I here boxers complaining about Arum and Oscar all the time and leaving them or suing them to get out of their contract. I don't here that about Haymon's fighters. They seem to love him and are loyal to him. If his boxers are happy with him and he gets them good money then he is doing a good job. What's the problem?

[WBC WBA IBF WBO]

They have a direct, and indirect interest in the promotional activities of the fighter. They sell broadcast rights, they sell tickets, and they sell advertising.

They are a promoter. Period.

From a legal perspective, none of that has anything to do with being a promoter. The promoter is the person who organizes, promotes and produces the actual live event. Who sells the broadcast rights, sells the tickets or sells the advertising is irrelevant in terms of who is legally considered the promoter.

The actual work or organizing the live event, promoting the live event and producing the live event, many things which you think of as being a site coordinator, those are the things the government actually considers being a promoter.

We know Haymon doesn't promote the event because he doesn't speak. He certainly doesn't produce the event as he no longer attends many of the events and the larger events he attends, he is not the person in charge of the live production. So that just leaves organizing the event. Let's look at the definition of that word:

make arrangements or preparations for (an event or activity); coordinate.

The promoter hired, which is usually Tom Brown, is actually the person making the arrangements and preparations for the event and coordinating. "Site coordinator" is what you prefer to label him, but those responsibilities are the exact responsibilities of a promoter in the eyes of the law.

If we go further back in boxing history, before promoters had seized all of the power, it was the boxing manager who had all of the power and the promoter was simply hired to organize, promote and produce the live event. All Haymon has done has taken things back to the way they used to be.

[Offline]

Says he wants to see PBC work with other promoters for once and also mentions that he offered Charlo a ton of money and PBC turned it down.

I think every promoter has called out PBC for refusing to work with others at this point.

I’m really starting to think they’re the only reason we don’t get the fights we want.

It’s pure greed.

[Cobra Curry]

I don't believe that. I use as an example the situation at DAZN with GGG and Andrade.

I was surprised by the lack of backlash when they made the 2 separate fights for each rather than the unification fight. There wasn't much complaint from anyone. Yet when Charlo refused to fight Andrade there was outrage.

I think many posters make a huge issue when PBC is at fault for not making fights, but do not create as many threads or post in volume when one of the other promotional outfits doesn't make fights.

Would you agree?

Re GGG/Andrade, I think the Canelo trilogy took precedence for a lot of people as well as the fact he'd just gone to war with Derevyenchenko. I imagine most were okay with or at least expectant of Random IBF Mandatory if he couldn't get Canelo.

I know you feel that what's good for Golovkin is good for Charlo but in the eyes of most, Charlo and Andrade are on one level and Golovkin and Alvarez are on another so an elimination match seems like the natural thing.

I would agree that there are more threads and posts criticising PBC than the other outfits but it has to be said that they are proving the most difficult for others to work with and I don't think the fighters help themselves with much of their rhetoric.

[boliodogs]

I think we all know pbc is the scum of boxing

How arrogant of you to think everyone agrees with you. I am a fan of the Charlos, Spence, Pacquiao and Porter among others. I don't think they are scum. I don't think Haymon is scum either. If he was his boxers would be suing him and leaving him like they do Oscar and Arum. Instead they praise him. He helps lots of boxers make a better living. I think that is a good thing and admirable. It puts money in his pocket too but why not? He earned it. Arum and Oscar both have many times as much money as Haymon so he isn't making that much money off his boxers but just a fair amount.

[Sweet Jones]

From a legal perspective, none of that has anything to do with being a promoter. The promoter is the person who organizes, promotes and produces the actual live event. Who sells the broadcast rights, sells the tickets or sells the advertising is irrelevant in terms of who is legally considered the promoter.

The actual work or organizing the live event, promoting the live event and producing the live event, many things which you think of as being a site coordinator, those are the things the government actually considers being a promoter.

We know Haymon doesn't promote the event because he doesn't speak. He certainly doesn't produce the event as he no longer attends many of the events and the larger events he attends, he is not the person in charge of the live production. So that just leaves organizing the event. Let's look at the definition of that word:

make arrangements or preparations for (an event or activity); coordinate.

The promoter hired, which is usually Tom Brown, is actually the person making the arrangements and preparations for the event and coordinating. "Site coordinator" is what you prefer to label him, but those responsibilities are the exact responsibilities of a promoter in the eyes of the law.

If we go further back in boxing history, before promoters had seized all of the power, it was the boxing manager who had all of the power and the promoter was simply hired to organize, promote and produce the live event. All Haymon has done has taken things back to the way they used to be.

I really wish more people understood this. The notion of having to 'work with' a promoter over his manager to make a fight happen or that a 'promoter' would be empowered to 'guide' or speak on a boxers career/future fights and network entanglements is a concept less than 40 years old.

[Sweet Jones]

Do you really think everyone is just against PBC just because they are good? Or because their leader is black (According to some posters)? No!

I was one of the biggest PBC bumlickers on here when they first landed in boxing, I love everything about them. They offered free boxing on my screens, I was able to watch American based fights on Boxnation over here in the UK.

I have had many arguments with those who oppose them in the beginning for whatever reasons they came up with at that time.

But then PBC changed their business model, they started preventing fights, started manipulating the boxers, started playing politics and just made boxing worse IMHO.

We already had politics in boxing, this is why I hated Bob Arum for sooooooo long, but the same people/posters who were with me, when I use to shit on Bob Arum for example, are the same ones endorsing PBC model now!!!

The same posters that make excuses for why the PBC top names shouldn't take another fight, against their rival in boxing (Not in terms of network) because it would hurt the promotional company that is PBC (Haymon).

Why should you as a fan care about PBC (Haymon)? He isn't your father, you as a poster should be for the boxer, and if it means the boxer getting paid 20M to fight on ESPN then criticise them if they are NOT taking those opportunities, when they are getting paid 4M for the same fight plus the fake under the table monies.

So Oscar is right, Arum is right (Gosh that feels weird), Hearn is right, Lou di bella is right, PBC has been preventing fighting, not for the benefit of the boxers but for the benefit of the people that PBC are aligned with.

I am 'pro-boxer', which leads to one question: what boxer under the PBC banner is complaining about their money or how their career is being guided?

There are stories out there right now that Canelo isnt even on personal speaking terms with OLDH/Golden Boy. What is the PBC equivalent of this?

[ShoulderRoll]

Stay with crack head Oscar or go on your own. Seems like an easy choice to me.

It's still foul how Haymon took all those fighters and almost ruined Oscar's company.

Why didn't he build fighters from scratch on his own and create PBC that way, instead of screwing over another man to get ahead?

To this day it can be argued that Haymon still doesn't know how to build a superstar. Floyd would have blown up with or without him.

[SplitSecond]

I am 'pro-boxer', which leads to one question: what boxer under the PBC banner is complaining about their money or how their career is being guided?

There are stories out there right now that Canelo isnt even on personal speaking terms with OLDH/Golden Boy. What is the PBC equivalent of this?

“I want all my Boxing Fans to know that I’m not happy With my Manager Al Haymon and My Promoter Tom Brown,” Martirosyan wrote on his Twitter account. “They are holding me back! I have too much respect for this bull-. They don’t wanna answer my Calls But they Answer my Tweets! IMO. Champs Keep Cherry Picking Around each other! #FreeVanes”.

Gary Russell too has made complaints. Most of these guys are happy with the millions and not having to fight anyone. It’s very comfortable at PBC when you have no desire to challenge yourself, it just becomes a typical job you simply show up to. Like it has been said since the early days, and it doesn’t seem to have changed, Haymon is great for the fighters, but terrible for the sport.

[Ray*]

Show me one boxer that said PBC manipulated them. You're just throwing baseless accusations out there and hoping it sticks. I find it funny how you claim all of these other promoters are "right" when they have made a career out of what they accuse PBC of doing. You can't pretend you're being objective here when you're clearly taking sides.

PBC works with other promoters all the time. Claiming they don't is a flat out lie.

Honestly there is a reason why I don’t discuss with you. You seriously waiting for me to show you a boxer that was manipulated? Seriously? You genuinely asking that? Wow... I don’t give a phuck if you think am objective or not. I know PBC is bad for boxing currently, just like I knew they were good for boxing in the beginning, you can cry and get your knickers in a twist all you want.