Lennox Lewis= Top 3 in History

[NORMNEALON]

Tyson dumped it as well.

They were all scared of Lewis.

Hollyfieild tried to avoid Lewis as long as possible as well.

You are absolutely correct I read the word vacated in your post as dumped for some reason and had bowe throwing the belt in the trash on my mind.that was a while ago haha. Tyson paid lewis 4 million step aside to fight bruno I believe and then vacated after going into the seldon fight . Lewis was avoided . He would have given great scraps pre steward , however those guys kind of waited him out til he was better , their plan kind of back fired . Lewis matured late and in the last chapter of his career he had the Aura of an atg . I wouldnt have picked anyone then to beat him active at that time ....vitali had the best shot and still lost to the worst version of lewis I've seen besides rahman 1 .....he had cleaned up and ruiz and or byrd would have done nothing for me .

[boogbx]

Lennox is up there as one of the greatest Heavyweights of all time. It’s unanimous from what I gather.

He has the size and skill to dominate at any level any era.

[HandsofIron]

No way dude, he got KO by 2 bums. Top 3 guy doesn't get ko by bums.

[D4thincarnation]

No way dude, he got KO by 2 bums. Top 3 guy doesn't get ko by bums.

If those right hands landed on you, you would be dead.

[Marchegiano]

Yes Marciano had a indomitable spirit when the chips were down in the ring but Ive read his record was carefully managed. Hence didnt really fight many top fighters in his prime ?

If that were true then there would be someone of note worth mentioning from his era that he didn't beat up.

Take notice, folks talk about Louis in his prime, Patterson, and Liston, the latter two of course being after Marciano and a prime Louis being before Marciano. Almost no one ever talks about any peer group, or guys coming up at the same time as Marciano, as if Marciano avoided them at all because there are none.

Who did he avoid? Okay, often the answer to this is something along the lines of "No one, but, there was no prime competition for him to avoid"

The prospects who were rising and touted as the next great HW champions are the guys I already spoke about.

Ring had more weight back then not less. Rex Layne was a prime contender just like Marciano only Rex, unlike Marciano, had the backing of Ring while Nat was still alive. He had only one, avenged, loss at the time of his Marciano rumble. He does have wins over both Walcott and Charles. Maybe he was Ring hype, maybe he was the real deal and just got bad luck being in Rock's era, doesn't matter really. It's very hard to spin it as if he wasn't a big time contender.

Harry Kid Matthews was the west's big hope for HW. 55+ wins streak, losses only at smaller weights and only to veterans when he was green. Consider any HW today having that on their record ATM. 55+ wins, unbeaten at HW, top ranked opposition. How is he not an excellent peer group win? Where Rex can be all hype from Ring Mag Matthews brings the goods in the form of resume. He does end his career with quite the number of losses but that's mostly because he couldn't accept ****ell had his number. Most of his losses are from one man.

90-7 ain't bad. His first loss is at 145 to a 98-27 veteran, then another pair of losses to 56-7 and 60-4 vets, move up, go unbeaten from 1946-52, Marciano KO's him, whoops Lowry and Ebshore, gets caught up by ****ell x3, gives Charles a whoopin then goes home. He's a damn solid fighter from the era.

Roland LaStarza as the big prospect from the east and Marciano's main rival for tickets and getting local fans behind him. Roland was a defense pioneer, he's the first guy to use the tactic of using the ropes to absorb punishment and using his elbows tight to his body to block....yes, exactly like rope-a-dope, and yes, it isn't coincidence that man grew up watching this one.

What of British Champion Don ****ell? Forced up to HW by a medical condition that caused him to gain weight ****ell proved in short time he was one of the best men in the division. He wasn't old, he wasn't unpopular, he wasn't unaccredited. This is the British champion we're talking about. Of course he's respected, at least at home. He got three wins over Matthews and a win over LaStarza to earn his shot at Marciano.


Finally there is Nino Valdes. Sometimes a knowledgeable poster will bring up Nino as if Marciano ducked Nino. Often it's said Nino was too big for Rock so Rock didn't fight him, he instead chose to fight the LHW champion Moore. It is true, Nino was the top ranked true HW when Marciano fought Moore but the reasoning is just a lie. Moore beat Valdes twice for that HW title shot against Marciano.

Rocky fought all the top competition, and destroyed them. That's why you don't know of any even half decent fighter from his reign in the 50s to name and claim Marciano was protected from this man. Simply, is none to pin that on. Either they got their ass kicked by Marciano direct or the guy who kicked their ass got his ass kicked by Marciano.

[juggernaut666]

If that were true then there would be someone of note worth mentioning from his era that he didn't beat up.

Take notice, folks talk about Louis in his prime, Patterson, and Liston, the latter two of course being after Marciano and a prime Louis being before Marciano. Almost no one ever talks about any peer group, or guys coming up at the same time as Marciano, as if Marciano avoided them at all because there are none.

Who did he avoid? Okay, often the answer to this is something along the lines of "No one, but, there was no prime competition for him to avoid"

The prospects who were rising and touted as the next great HW champions are the guys I already spoke about.

Ring had more weight back then not less. Rex Layne was a prime contender just like Marciano only Rex, unlike Marciano, had the backing of Ring while Nat was still alive. He had only one, avenged, loss at the time of his Marciano rumble. He does have wins over both Walcott and Charles. Maybe he was Ring hype, maybe he was the real deal and just got bad luck being in Rock's era, doesn't matter really. It's very hard to spin it as if he wasn't a big time contender.

Harry Kid Matthews was the west's big hope for HW. 55+ wins streak, losses only at smaller weights and only to veterans when he was green. Consider any HW today having that on their record ATM. 55+ wins, unbeaten at HW, top ranked opposition. How is he not an excellent peer group win? Where Rex can be all hype from Ring Mag Matthews brings the goods in the form of resume. He does end his career with quite the number of losses but that's mostly because he couldn't accept ****ell had his number. Most of his losses are from one man.

90-7 ain't bad. His first loss is at 145 to a 98-27 veteran, then another pair of losses to 56-7 and 60-4 vets, move up, go unbeaten from 1946-52, Marciano KO's him, whoops Lowry and Ebshore, gets caught up by ****ell x3, gives Charles a whoopin then goes home. He's a damn solid fighter from the era.

Roland LaStarza as the big prospect from the east and Marciano's main rival for tickets and getting local fans behind him. Roland was a defense pioneer, he's the first guy to use the tactic of using the ropes to absorb punishment and using his elbows tight to his body to block....yes, exactly like rope-a-dope, and yes, it isn't coincidence that man grew up watching this one.

What of British Champion Don ****ell? Forced up to HW by a medical condition that caused him to gain weight ****ell proved in short time he was one of the best men in the division. He wasn't old, he wasn't unpopular, he wasn't unaccredited. This is the British champion we're talking about. Of course he's respected, at least at home. He got three wins over Matthews and a win over LaStarza to earn his shot at Marciano.


Finally there is Nino Valdes. Sometimes a knowledgeable poster will bring up Nino as if Marciano ducked Nino. Often it's said Nino was too big for Rock so Rock didn't fight him, he instead chose to fight the LHW champion Moore. It is true, Nino was the top ranked true HW when Marciano fought Moore but the reasoning is just a lie. Moore beat Valdes twice for that HW title shot against Marciano.

Rocky fought all the top competition, and destroyed them. That's why you don't know of any even half decent fighter from his reign in the 50s to name and claim Marciano was protected from this man. Simply, is none to pin that on. Either they got their ass kicked by Marciano direct or the guy who kicked their ass got his ass kicked by Marciano.

Marciano fought 26 guys coming off losses .

Fought 10 guys over 200 pounds bc most guys many WERE under it but you'll still pretend he's a giant killer .

Fought 6 guys with one or two win streaks .

Fought 9 guys with winning fights in their prior six without dropping one .

He accumulated 6 title defenses in 3 years time that 2 fighters per year rounding it up and you claim todays champs don't fight enough ?

Lastarza had a little over 30 fights before fighting Marciano and 22 coming off losses , 9 with no more then two fight win streaks and only 3 guys capable of stringing together over 4 consecutive that's why he was the best prospect, why would he lose fighting those guys ?

His best Win was Moore who was 39 years old ( you guys seem to talk a lot about age on here ? ) and over 60 fights by then .


His second best was Louis at 37 way off his fight weight ,

His Third best was Walcott who was 38 . Marciano won because it was stopped in round 13 which is miles for someone of 38 then .This fight actually resemble the Wilder vs Ortiz situation where Ortiz should have won the first and everyone knew he was done going into the second one with a puncher .


Marciano wasn't protected at least late in his career ,hes just lucky he had guys with swiss cheese resumes where everyone was losing as winning and no actual dominant HW like Liston emerged yet who would look like a real HW . But keep on talking about this and that era of modern times like someone wont know taking multiple losses to average guys in Marcianos era wasn't a norm?

These guys wouldn't even be allowed to fight the top guys today and Marciano would be FORCED to learn the jab and would have to think real hard if he wanted to be CW even .

I TOLD YOU I WAS GOING TO HAVE A FIELD DAY on here eventually ,you asked for it you GOT it now..... I know exactly how to do that, its simple just talk about the Rock . lol

[Marchegiano]

Marciano fought 26 guys coming off losses .

Fought 10 guys over 200 pounds bc most guys many WERE under it but you'll still pretend he's a giant killer .

Fought 6 guys with one or two win streaks .

Fought 9 guys with winning fights in their prior six without dropping one .

His best Win was Moore who was 39 years old ( you guys seem to talk a lot about age on here ? ) and over 60 fights by then .


His second best was Louis at 37 way off his fight weight ,

His Third best was Walcott who was 38 . Marciano won because it was stopped in round 13 which is miles for someone of 38 then .This fight actually resemble the Wilder vs Ortiz situation where Ortiz should have won the first and everyone knew he was done going into the second one with a puncher .


Marciano wasn't protected at least late in his career ,hes just lucky he had guys with swiss cheese resumes where everyone was losing as winning and no actual dominant HW like Liston emerged yet who would look like a real HW . But keep on talking about this and that era of modern times like someone wont know taking multiple losses to average guys in Marcianos era wasn't a norm,these guys wouldn't even be allowed to fight the top guys today .

Oh we're just going to throw out random stats? I don't see any attempt to detract from what I said but rather just a random attempt to detract from Marciano.

I can that too:

Marciano retired 25 men 13 of which retired immediately.

Marciano's got the hardest punch ever scientifically recorded of any human being who ever lived at 925 foot-pounds, some x3 more energy than your standard police sidearm.

Been 135 years since Sullivan made Queensberry the standard of boxing, plenty of weak eras in that time, only one unbeaten and unmatched HW champion; Marciano.

x3 Fighter and Fight of the Year winner.

Want me to keep going?

You can actually refute something I said. Just speaking contrary at one another is...well..weird and disconnected.


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Here's the thing Juggie-boy, it doesn't take much cleverness to realize you are out of your depth. I don't actually have to son you because you've already son'd yourself. I spoke to Rex Layne's backing by Nat Fleischer and you brought up your opinion and some record anecdotes. It's pretty clear already I know the period and you're just some ******* who looked at Boxrec. One doesn't even need to share my opinion to realize I'm going to work circles around your ignorance. I can bring narrative while you only have statistics, your opinion, and some weird projections you just throw on me.

That said, I haven't the time to go point by point teaching an idiot with strong opinions and little understandings any subject. Let me illustrate how much less effort it takes for you to be a dumb**** than it does for me to refute you dumbassery:

Marciano fought 26 guys coming off losses .

Do you know the number of men coming off loses on anyone else's record during Marciano's era? Or even a little before, from the Primo/Baer era? How about Patterson's era? Have you kept up with guys coming off loses there?

I don't think you understand the structure of single body boxing. The NBA was the only title that mattered, the NBA ranks were the only ranks that matter. You had to beat men above you to fight men above them, not like today when you just have to earn a regional or affiliate belt to get ranked in the top ten.

That means to get to guys with great winning records you had to fight guys with not so great record right? And if you want to prove something you'll be after the best guys around your ranking available to you right? Okay, you silly child, Marciano has so many guys coming off losses because he was a man on a mission and took on the best guys he could as soon as they got into a position he could fight them. That's why as they get closer and close to the title, naturally, the losses get less and less.


That's why ATG SRR has as many debuts on his record in the latter half of his career as Marciano does in his first.

Marciano didn't have Ring's back or a strong Bronx bankroll, or the entire western gentry behind him. He wasn't favored often and wasn't seen as a guy who would be champion. He had to force his way into the ranking which is why he fought Roland early, Roland had the money behind him, the name, the coverage from sporting magazine, Rocky wanted that. Roland's team saw Rocky as a crude and easy win for their pioneering defense virtuoso and took a fight with him expecting it to make Roland look good and earn him more local celebrity. He got beaten though.

Which put Marciano in the realm of veterans, right where Rex Layne found himself. Rex did have one loss, against a guy he'd beaten and would beat twice more after that loss. He got a win over Walcott which positioned him as top of the heap at 34-1 with a twice avenged loss years prior and win over Jersey Joe Walcott.

Of course Marciano fought Layne first then cleaned house taking out the aging Louis and IBU champion Savold to force a title elim with Matthews. All the while maintaining rank against guys who were trying to make the most of their new positions themselves.

Now let us look at Lennox Lewis's journey.

Lennox fought for a domestic level championship after having faced no top ten competition, then after gaining access through auto ranking with WBC affiliates Lennox fought only Weaver and Ruddock of the top tens to earn his WBC title shot. He won and that and credit to him he did go on from there to stack an assortment of top ten wins, unify all the belts and be the last undisputed and one of if not the greatest champion of all time.

But, you've to be ****ing dense as **** to not understand why the oldens had so many loses and fought so many guys coming off losses especially the ones who rose quickly. It is the same exact thing everyone always *****es about when *****ing about the multiple bodies. Multiple bodies give people places to hide and allows them to pad their records. Even good guys in those eras have artificially pretty records due to their artificially ranked positions.

This lesson is over. I doubt you read ****, and that's why I'm not wasting my time addressing every tidbit you think is a good point. You don't know and probably don't want to know anything about what you're talking about.

[Richard]

Rocky fought all the top competition, and destroyed them. That's why you don't know of any even half decent fighter from his reign in the 50s to name and claim Marciano was protected from this man. Simply, is none to pin that on. Either they got their ass kicked by Marciano direct or the guy who kicked their ass got his ass kicked by Marciano.

Decent post and thanks for the input but I still feel overall is behind the likes of Muhammad Ali and Lennox Lewis.Hence these two I feel would have beaten Marciano due to their better boxing ability.Hence again from reading boxing historians and those who trained him and others in the boxing fraternity who were there at his time didn't really rate him from the outset as a pure technician?

[The plunger man]

Lewis on his day beats any heavyweight in history......beat every man he faced and was ducked by bowe and at 1st by Tyson.
Lewis had everything as a boxer and for me ranks as number 1 along with Ali.
From 1992 to 2003 he remained at the top or close to it and it was only because he took McCall and Rachman lightly that he lost.
Louis was knocked out twice as well and Ali was damn near koed 2 times as well , by cooper and shavers it was just lucky Dundee was in his corner to change the course of the fight.

[Richard]

Lewis on his day beats any heavyweight in history......beat every man he faced and was ducked by bowe and at 1st by Tyson.
.

I have a lot of respect for what Cus D'Amato done for Tyson but was disappointed when I read Tysons book at some of the underhand tactics Cus used in the way he prepared him for fights.