Do you guys think Pacquiao is on a par with Duran?

[BKM-]

Duran redeemed himself by capturing titles at 154 and 160, without catchweights, well above his max weight.

And speaking of rivals, Duran beat his in SRL. Was Pacquiao able to beat his rival in Mayweather? No, he lost and even if he had won, Pac still wouldn't be on par with Duran.

You can never redeem yourself after quitting in your prime in your most important career fight. It was one of the most disgraceful losses in top boxing history and will always be held against him especially when compared to other greats.

Pac may have lost that one but he didn't quit. There is no quit in him unlike No Mas, who was put to death by Hearns and would never ever have a chance of winning that fight. As for his rivals, they were MAB, Morales, JMM etc. He beat all of them. Floyd never gave him a rematch and ducked him for half a decade and only met past prime, there was no rivalry there.

[TonyGe]

Duran redeemed himself by capturing titles at 154 and 160, without catchweights, well above his max weight.

And speaking of rivals, Duran beat his in SRL. Was Pacquiao able to beat his rival in Mayweather? No, he lost and even if he had won, Pac still wouldn't be on par with Duran.

No catchweights against prime Leonard.
None against prime Hagler.
None against Cuevas.
None against prime Hearns.
None against prime Palaminos.
None against prime Barkley a man that dwarfed him in the ring.

When Duran fought for a title he moved up to the weight class of his opponent and some people have the nerve to call him a bully.

[TonyGe]

You should know once a fighter is retired that's when historians and boxing experts ponder on the work he's done.

But, at this point its a no brainer how much Pac has achieved in his career. Stuff of legends that even the great Duran wish he had.

The wish goes both ways. I'm sure PAC would love to have Duran's string of victories at Lightweigh They are two different fighters. Like I said I think PAC is a great fighter. I thought he beat Mayweather but I can't credit him with those catchweight fights. Couple in it's easier now to get titles with more sanctioning bodies and weight divisions. That's my view on the two fighters.

[HandsofIron]

You can never redeem yourself after quitting in your prime in your most important career fight. It was one of the most disgraceful losses in top boxing history and will always be held against him especially when compared to other greats.

Pac may have lost that one but he didn't quit. There is no quit in him unlike No Mas, who was put to death by Hearns and would never ever have a chance of winning that fight. As for his rivals, they were MAB, Morales, JMM etc. He beat all of them. Floyd never gave him a rematch and ducked him for half a decade and only met past prime, there was no rivalry there.

Look, I'll make it simple - just compare and contrast Duran and Pacquaio's early, developmental stages of their careers. Pacquaio got knocked out by two unknowns as a prospect and then as a contender. A raw, unrefined Duran lost to Hall of Famer Esteban De Jesus (who is comparable to Juan Manuel Marquez) but Duran, subsequently, destroyed him in the rematch and rubber match.

In short, Pacquaio got KO by two BUMS early in his career that he never avenged as opposed to Duran who lost to a HOF, De Jesus, but did avenge twice.

And there's no shame losing to Tommy Hearns, he's arguably the greatest 154 fighter to ever live. Pacquiao doesn't make it out the first round with the Hitman at 147. Plus, you are also forgetting that Duran was fighting way past his natural weight. Duran was a career lightweight, his best weight was 140 and his limit was 147. Duran was mostly fat when he left the welterweight division so obviously he wasn't going to be at his best the more he moved up.

[QueensburyRules]

- -You boys need to relocate to the History forum.

We like easy fresh meat!

[Spoon23]

The wish goes both ways. I'm sure PAC would love to have Duran's string of victories at Lightweigh They are two different fighters. Like I said I think PAC is a great fighter. I thought he beat Mayweather but I can't credit him with those catchweight fights. Couple in it's easier now to get titles with more sanctioning bodies and weight divisions. That's my view on the two fighters.

You forget. Duran didn't beat as much p4p Champs in his career. Not even close to how Pac did.

[TonyGe]

You forget. Duran didn't beat as much p4p Champs in his career. Not even close to how Pac did.

There are multiple weight divisions now. There are multiple P4P fighters in the same division depending if you believe everybody with a keyboard and has a rep as a boxing Insider no matter how dubious that may be. P4P is subjective. It's based on your peers at the time you are fighting. Today's P4P can easily be tomorrow's gatekeeper. OK PAC beat Oscar. P4P fighter right.... or wrong. Was he an elite P4P fighter at 147 when he fought PAC. I would say emphatically... no way in hell. He looked weak and old when he fought Pacquiao. That version of Oscar was done. Stick a fork in him. Marquez knocked him out. The Mayweather fight that I thought PAC won was a stinker. Morales beat him up. It comes down to this put the two men in the ring at 135, 140 and 147. Duran wins IMO. Resumes, P4P, lineal champions etc don't get in the ring with you. Just the two men and the referee.

[HandsofIron]

No catchweights against prime Leonard.
None against prime Hagler.
None against Cuevas.
None against prime Hearns.
None against prime Palaminos.
None against prime Barkley a man that dwarfed him in the ring.

When Duran fought for a title he moved up to the weight class of his opponent and some people have the nerve to call him a bully.

Exactly, that just shows how amazing Duran was, he was usually the oldest and smallest but he never asked for any kind of catchweight, rehydration clauses, none of this A-side crap. Same day weigh-ins, no ducking, he fought everyone at their best unlike today's generation.

[BKM-]

Look, I'll make it simple - just compare and contrast Duran and Pacquaio's early, developmental stages of their careers. Pacquaio got knocked out by two unknowns as a prospect and then as a contender. A raw, unrefined Duran lost to Hall of Famer Esteban De Jesus (who is comparable to Juan Manuel Marquez) but Duran, subsequently, destroyed him in the rematch and rubber match.

You're making an irrelevant point about Pacquiao losing as a young kid while blatantly ignoring the No Mas.

I got news for you, getting stopped between the ages of 18-20 is absolutely nothing compared to QUITTING in your PRIME in the most important fight of your career.

Lastly, Pacquiao's prime lasted much longer and he's been at the highest level longer so whatever point you want to make about timeframes, Duran doesn't win this because he had no discipline to extend his best years, made excuses for every loss he ever had and he was a proven quitter. He is inferior to Pacquiao as a fighter, as a legend and as a MAN.

And there's no shame losing to Tommy Hearns

There's plenty of shame in losing in that manner and making tons of excuses about it afterwards.

[HandsofIron]

You're making an irrelevant point about Pacquiao losing as a young kid while blatantly ignoring the No Mas.

I got news for you, getting stopped between the ages of 18-20 is absolutely nothing compared to QUITTING in your PRIME in the most important fight of your career.

Lastly, Pacquiao's prime lasted much longer and he's been at the highest level longer so whatever point you want to make about timeframes, Duran doesn't win this because he had no discipline to extend his best years, made excuses for every loss he ever had and he was a proven quitter. He is inferior to Pacquiao as a fighter, as a legend and as a MAN.




There's plenty of shame in losing in that manner and making tons of excuses about it afterwards.

No, first of all you ignored the point I made when I told you Duran redeemed himself by winning titles at 154 & 160, beyond his natural fighting weight.

And there's was nothing irrelevant about my post since we are comparing the legacies of Duran and Pacquiao.

And stop with the kid bs, Pacquaio got knocked out by a cab driver as a prospect, Duran as a prospect did not. When they were both contenders with 20+ fights in, Pacquiao once again got knocked out by a limo driver that he did not avenge while Duran lost to a legend but eventually did avenge twice.

Pacquaio is not on Duran's level and never will be. It's boxing sacrilege to even think that.