Andre Ward is insanely overrated

[ShoulderRoll]

Kid, dear... if this represents "the dying art of inside fighting" then let me remind you: this never was permitted under the boxing rules and this never was "an art"... this simply is wrestling -- which is totally another sport)...

Wrong, dear.

In the early 1900's the French boxer Georges Carpentier wrote a book in which he gave credit to Americans for developing the art of infighting and innovating the sport beyond the outfighting of the English style.

He even hoped that a "French school" would emerge that combined the best of the English way and the American way.

Frank Klaus was generally regarded as one of the top exponents of that style and even wrote a book about it called "The Art of In-Fighting." Which you can still buy to this day.

Learn your history.

[ShoulderRoll]

- -Major league sissy, but at least he didn't bawl about it like Popkins and TUE 50-0

You seem to hate every black American fighter.

But that's reflective of your own personal insecurities and agenda, sissy. The rest of us need not go along with it.

[MDPopescu]

Wrong, dear.

In the early 1900's the French boxer Georges Carpentier wrote a book in which he gave credit to Americans for developing the art of infighting and innovating the sport beyond the outfighting of the English style.

He even hoped that a "French school" would emerge that combined the best of the English way and the American way.

Frank Klaus was generally regarded as one of the top exponents of that style and even wrote a book about it called "The Art of In-Fighting." Which you can still buy to this day.

Learn your history.

... [B]the art of infighting and innovating[/B ...

... well... you must be very, very sick, doe!...

[mlac]

You seem to hate every black American fighter.

But that's reflective of your own personal insecurities and agenda, sissy. The rest of us need not go along with it.

pot. kettle. black.

[ShoulderRoll]

... [B]the art of infighting and innovating[/B ...

... well... you must be very, very sick, doe!...

That's not a very educated rebuttal, Poopescu dear.

Are you suggesting that Georges Carpentier and Frank Klaus were sick? Or that they didn't know what they were talking about? Because all I did in my post was reference them.

[Doctor_Tenma]

That's not a very educated rebuttal, Poopescu dear.

Are you suggesting that Georges Carpentier and Frank Klaus were sick? Or that they didn't know what they were talking about? Because all I did in my post was reference them.

That seems consistent with who he is, reminds me of

[Boxing_1013]

typical casual fan...

thinks that Pac is great, but Mayweather is over-rated..

Every time you disagree with someone on here, you accuse them of being on the other side of every argument you have lol...
I think they are both great...never really said a bad word about Floyd.

Great boxer...2nd half of his career he went into Money May mode and played it safe and never really tested himself...but he was still in there with a lot of great and good fighters and I never really saw him troubled...he was also naturally a pretty small guy, so for him or Pac to be that good up to 147-154 is very impressive.

Floyd imo is the best marketer/promoter ever for a boxer...great talent as a boxer too but the lack of truly testing himself for a lot of his career leads means for me personally I can't list him as one of the best ever fighters...but he made a ton of money his way, so if he had to do it all over again I'm sure he wouldn't change a thing, and I don't blame him.

[Boxing_1013]

No it's an art because how many today know how to sneak in those short punches in close, utilizing their free hand? Ward would also keep his opponents turning whilst on the inside, never allowing them to get off. The issue is Ward's ability on the inside isn't highlight material and so people bitch about it.

Save me with your rules, it's hardly ever enforced and greats know how to buy enough time to get the refs off their back.

Ward mastered all of the basic fundamentals and his instincts in the ring, his reactive ability, that was on par with Mayweather. A lot of the stuff people are disgusted by, that being the way Ward operates on the inside, well none of that stuff is new to the sport. The issue at hand was that inside fighting was/ is such a dying art that everything Ward did up close was seen as dirty.

Man I was never impressed with Ward's reflexes...not nearly the same as Floyd imo...Ward was always much easier to hit and imo had vastly different styles.

To the bold...I agree in the sense that I like some good dirty fighting occasionally, and definitely some good inside fighting...the rules are meant to be broken occasionally, as the distance between fair and foul in boxing can be tight.

A punch intended to go to the side of the head could end up closer to the back of the head and thus deemed a rabbit punch...righties and lefties clash heads a lot when they fight, but determining who initiated the headbutt is sometimes hard to call.

From my perspective with Ward...he seemed to have a big pattern of doing numerous illegal moves when the going got tough in his fights, basically anytime he faced someone from Boone or Bika's level up to Kovalev's level...throwing elbows as punches...jumping in with the head...going low...I mean basically just trying to get away with all he could.

And because he always fought at home, often times literally at home in Oakland...he seemed to get away with all that he wanted to do...I just personally can't champion a guy who I think was a mediocre skills boxer, but because he fought at home he was able to get away with a lot of dirty/illegal tactics, and even then imo was very rarely able to dominate rounds let alone fights.

I think Andre was a very tough smart fighter...I give him credit for that...but even when he was allowed to get dirty with opponents, it basically just turned all those rounds into pick em rounds...I've watched basically all of his biggest fights...at least 10 of them..and I can maybe recall 5 rounds where I came away saying 'OK, great round from Andre, clear round for him'.

I can name five rounds like that for Floyd GGG Loma etc and some others every time they fight...again I do think Ward was tough and smart...I almost think he would have been really better at MMA...but boxing skills wise I mean I just don't see how anyone saw great skills from him...I was just never impressed.

And I am someone who loves a good inside fight/phone booth war/and even some dirty tactics...just when you make it your whole MO, are only able to get away with it because you are at home, and even then can't really separate from your opponent skill wise, I mean I just can't really hype that up...just never really saw it from him imo

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

You cant have this opinion without being called a hater or a kkkovalev lil g fan. but i concur, i honestly think hes the most overrated boxer in the past decade.

In what sense man? I respect your opinion but Ward was excellent IMO.

Technical Skills ✅
Resume ✅
2 Weight Lineal Champ ✅
Olympics Gold Medalist ✅

Aside from Kovalev 1 (which I scored 114-113 to Kov) He clearly won all his fights, and he emphatically won the Kovalev rematch.

[Boxing_1013]

Everyone's is entitled to their opinion. You aren't the only one calling it like they see it. I don't care what anyone says about Wards style. I loved it, but I had criticism of his lack of a natural right hand. That same right hand that hurt Kov. The point of my post is even if you don't like a guy, you have to respect him.

Kov was given excuses even after being kod. HE even gave excuses and fans ****ted on him. But he got revenge and then pulled out a tough win. Props to him. That deserves respect.

Meanwhile, you guys expect fans to love Kov and hate Ward because you think he got gifts, and fought at home and had close fights, lmao. In that ring none of those criticisms protect you in that ring except your skills.

You guys don't sound like you respect Ward. That's your choice. You just don't sound objective to me that's all.

I even said in my initial post...that I think Ward was a very tough smart fighter...even if I feel he lacked the top end boxing skills and was able to get away with the dirty tactics because of where he fought etc.

He still had to be a tough smart guy to pull that style off consistently...imo he was really fighting every fight when the going got tough...not really boxing...but he was definitely tough...I think he would have been better at MMA tbh.

Kov is a great boxer imo...but flawed just like every boxer is really...poor stamina which for his physique is inexcusable...imo pro athletes should really be teetotalers to achieve optimal physical performance and pretty sure Kov is definitely not that...so I can't really respect that about him, and a pro athlete having bad stamina is unforgivable imo.

I don't hate Ward or anything...like I said I think he is tough and smart as a fighter...I think he seems like a decent family man too...I do roll my eyes when he talks a lot because he reminds me of friends I have/had...who are fairly smart but say things that aren't really accurate, to try and fit the persona they want to be true.

Honestly I think some of it for him is because he is mixed so he probably struggles to find the right messaging, and struggles with his identity a bit.

So yeah I don't hate Ward or love Kov really...I think skills wise Kov was a better boxer, I think Ward was tougher...similarly smart in the ring...and I think that if Ward was from Ghana or somewhere else, and fought the same way, I don't think he would have had the same career at all.

Two of my biggest head-scratchers with Ward were when he fought Bika and Barrera...if I said I saw a clear winner in either of those fights I would be lying...and Ward looks closer to to Kovalev than either one of those guys so for me it's not about looks just rather what I see from guys in the ring