Andre Ward is insanely overrated

[Doctor_Tenma]

Man I was never impressed with Ward's reflexes...not nearly the same as Floyd imo...Ward was always much easier to hit and imo had vastly different styles.

To the bold...I agree in the sense that I like some good dirty fighting occasionally, and definitely some good inside fighting...the rules are meant to be broken occasionally, as the distance between fair and foul in boxing can be tight.

A punch intended to go to the side of the head could end up closer to the back of the head and thus deemed a rabbit punch...righties and lefties clash heads a lot when they fight, but determining who initiated the headbutt is sometimes hard to call.

From my perspective with Ward...he seemed to have a big pattern of doing numerous illegal moves when the going got tough in his fights, basically anytime he faced someone from Boone or Bika's level up to Kovalev's level...throwing elbows as punches...jumping in with the head...going low...I mean basically just trying to get away with all he could.

And because he always fought at home, often times literally at home in Oakland...he seemed to get away with all that he wanted to do...I just personally can't champion a guy who I think was a mediocre skills boxer, but because he fought at home he was able to get away with a lot of dirty/illegal tactics, and even then imo was very rarely able to dominate rounds let alone fights.

I think Andre was a very tough smart fighter...I give him credit for that...but even when he was allowed to get dirty with opponents, it basically just turned all those rounds into pick em rounds...I've watched basically all of his biggest fights...at least 10 of them..and I can maybe recall 5 rounds where I came away saying 'OK, great round from Andre, clear round for him'.

I can name five rounds like that for Floyd GGG Loma etc and some others every time they fight...again I do think Ward was tough and smart...I almost think he would have been really better at MMA...but boxing skills wise I mean I just don't see how anyone saw great skills from him...I was just never impressed.

And I am someone who loves a good inside fight/phone booth war/and even some dirty tactics...just when you make it your whole MO, are only able to get away with it because you are at home, and even then can't really separate from your opponent skill wise, I mean I just can't really hype that up...just never really saw it from him imo

You disregarded the answer to that in your earlier posts, it was his jab. Ward had a great head snapping jab and he was multi dimensional with it. His jab for many rounds was more impactful than a lot of the glancing power punches he got hit with, especially at '68 where Ward's athleticism allowed him to be more defensively responsible.

As for the dirtiness, we're ignoring the fact that Ward never fought anyone who had answers on the inside, Kessler, Froch and Kovalev themselves did a lot of their own holding and out of those three Froch to his credit offered the most resistance although he did look to Smoger a lot.

[Doctor_Tenma]

I scored the Ward-Bika fight 9 rounds to 3, one of the easiest fights to score. Why I'm telling you this is because a poster years ago made a thread exactly on this topic and many scored the fight again.

[Boxing_1013]

You disregarded the answer to that in your earlier posts, it was his jab. Ward had a great head snapping jab and he was multi dimensional with it. His jab for many rounds was more impactful than a lot of the glancing power punches he got hit with, especially at '68 where Ward's athleticism allowed him to be more defensively responsible.

As for the dirtiness, we're ignoring the fact that Ward never fought anyone who had answers on the inside, Kessler, Froch and Kovalev themselves did a lot of their own holding and out of those three Froch to his credit offered the most resistance although he did look to Smoger a lot.

I scored the Ward-Bika fight 9 rounds to 3, one of the easiest fights to score. Why I'm telling you this is because a poster years ago made a thread exactly on this topic and many scored the fight again.

I give Ward credit for the Froch win...saw no real issues and thought he won 7-5...though I do feel Froch was tailormade for Ward, but still was a nice win.

I would personally disagree as far as Ward with the jab...it was OK but not really that exceptional imo...I like it as times in the Barrera fight but other than that I can't really recall being enamored with it...and as you kind of mentioned, I just saw Ward in a lot of rounds where he was getting touched basically just as much as he was touching the other guy...Bika fight included.

I think generally when guys are landing about the same amount of shots on each other, especially when Ward was never really a great puncher...usually I score those rounds pretty even and I often did in Ward's fights.

[aboutfkntime]

Man I was never impressed with Ward's reflexes...not nearly the same as Floyd imo...Ward was always much easier to hit and imo had vastly different styles.

To the bold...I agree in the sense that I like some good dirty fighting occasionally, and definitely some good inside fighting...the rules are meant to be broken occasionally, as the distance between fair and foul in boxing can be tight.

A punch intended to go to the side of the head could end up closer to the back of the head and thus deemed a rabbit punch...righties and lefties clash heads a lot when they fight, but determining who initiated the headbutt is sometimes hard to call.

From my perspective with Ward...he seemed to have a big pattern of doing numerous illegal moves when the going got tough in his fights, basically anytime he faced someone from Boone or Bika's level up to Kovalev's level...throwing elbows as punches...jumping in with the head...going low...I mean basically just trying to get away with all he could.

And because he always fought at home, often times literally at home in Oakland...he seemed to get away with all that he wanted to do...I just personally can't champion a guy who I think was a mediocre skills boxer, but because he fought at home he was able to get away with a lot of dirty/illegal tactics, and even then imo was very rarely able to dominate rounds let alone fights.

I think Andre was a very tough smart fighter...I give him credit for that...but even when he was allowed to get dirty with opponents, it basically just turned all those rounds into pick em rounds...I've watched basically all of his biggest fights...at least 10 of them..and I can maybe recall 5 rounds where I came away saying 'OK, great round from Andre, clear round for him'.

I can name five rounds like that for Floyd GGG Loma etc and some others every time they fight...again I do think Ward was tough and smart...I almost think he would have been really better at MMA...but boxing skills wise I mean I just don't see how anyone saw great skills from him...I was just never impressed.

And I am someone who loves a good inside fight/phone booth war/and even some dirty tactics...just when you make it your whole MO, are only able to get away with it because you are at home, and even then can't really separate from your opponent skill wise, I mean I just can't really hype that up...just never really saw it from him imo

you casual-fans have no idea what you are looking at

you should follow boxing for awhile before you jump to silly conclusions

Ward is one of the most well-rounded fighters of the last 2 decades

supremely skilled, a master at controlling distance, IQ off the charts

a good example of a lower-skilled, one-dimensional fighter is, Golovkin

even Froch had angles to his game... Golovkin is just a plodder

Ward can deal with obstacles... Golovkin just limits his own game

here are some comments from a knowledgeable observer...

"He is one of the most complete boxers in any division today. Ward’s Ring IQ, accuracy, and quickness are often employed to masterfully dictating distance, opening up counter-punching ability. Ward’s best punches typically are predicated off of the lead left, including a stinging and variable jab.

Ward is also known for his highly effective inside/clinch game. Ward’s physical strength has enabled him to overpower and rough up many opponents on the inside and in a clinch. Connecting with his own shots, particularly the short left hook and uppercut, while smothering his opponent’s shots and weaving their punches is commonplace in Ward fights."


notice how the comments from that knowledgeable observer are significantly different than your comments?

[Boxing_1013]

hey you guys! I have an opinion....I love Ward...I think he is cool

Well I thank you for your opinion my friend

[Boxing_1013]

yeah I'm still living at my mom's house...she's really cool though, let's me stay out as late as I want

Who is the greatest white boxer ever, and where does he rank on your ATG list?

[aboutfkntime]

Well I thank you for your opinion my friend

you... misquote, and lie...

I... quote you directly, with links...



thinks that Golovkin has a better resume than Canelo.....

I just made a thread about specifically why people rate Canelo's resume as better than GGG's...and I laid out my case as to why I rate GGG's better.....
https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...d.php?t=820918

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thinks that one of the " killers " on Golovkin's resume could have beaten Canelo.... but he will not say which one LMAO

I don't think Canelo would have gotten all of his guys out by KO and maybe would not have 'won' all of them.....
https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...820918&page=10

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thinks that Murray Lemieux Monroe and Vanes, are better wins for Golovkin..... than Lara Cotto Trout and Mosley, are for Canelo.....

Canelo's top wins would be Lara..Jacobs and Cotto imo...GGG's would be Jacobs, Murray and Lemieux...I don't see a ton of separation there..... winning 7-5 vs a great Lara...and going 12 with a shot fat Cotto...is not imo better than 8 Round destruction of Lemieux...and 11 round destruction of Murray..... Vanes was inactive and moving up in weight...but he wasn't shot like SSM more or less was..... I don't think going 12 with Mosley when Canelo did, or 12 with Trout, are better wins than GGG running through Monroe and Geale.....
https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...820918&page=16

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thinks that Andre Ward is no better than Bika Barrera and Miranda

I just never really saw the skills from him..... if he was born in a different country I don't think he would have been looked at much differently than Bika Barrera or Miranda etc.....
https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...2#post19903762

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thinks that Golovkin has 5-6 'great' wins..... but cannot even name 1 of those 'great' wins

Yeah he has about 10+ good wins imo...and 5-6 'great' wins if you want to term it that...great fighter, great career...an ATG at MW...that's pretty clear I think..... If a great win is a dominant win over another prime great fighter...I would say GGG has quite a few tbh.....
https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...821123&page=20

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creates a thread misquoting Steve Weisfeld.....

Boxing1013 attempted to remove defence, ring generalship, and effective aggression, as official scoring criteria..... to justify why he thinks Golovkin beat Canelo in their rematch..... but, had NO IDEA that Steve Weisfeld was AN OFFICIAL JUDGE at the Canelo/Golovkin rematch..... and Weisfeld scored that fight for Canelo looool
https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...d.php?t=818903

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thinks that Golovkin has faced more quality opposition than almost any other fighter in history.....

never had a slip up against quality opposition, and he faced probably more of them than almost any other fighter in history...

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...d.php?t=824905

[Boxing_1013]

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thinks that one of the " killers " on Golovkin's resume could have beaten Canelo.... but he will not say which one LMAO


[/B]


-

Do you understand statistics

[aboutfkntime]

Do you understand statistics

do you understand the difference between making a whiney ignorant ANONYMOUS comment, with no justification...

and making a specific accurate knowledgeable comment, with a name?

who ? ... Mr " statistics " ... who ? ...

[just the facts]

I give Ward credit for the Froch win...saw no real issues and thought he won 7-5...though I do feel Froch was tailormade for Ward, but still was a nice win.

I would personally disagree as far as Ward with the jab...it was OK but not really that exceptional imo...I like it as times in the Barrera fight but other than that I can't really recall being enamored with it...and as you kind of mentioned, I just saw Ward in a lot of rounds where he was getting touched basically just as much as he was touching the other guy...Bika fight included.

I think generally when guys are landing about the same amount of shots on each other, especially when Ward was never really a great puncher...usually I score those rounds pretty even and I often did in Ward's fights.

7-5? Really?