Comments Thread For: Andrade: GGG Beat #81 in The World Rolls, I'm Fighting Real Guys!

[Ake-Dawg]

Serious question - why is GGG still number 3 with the WBC if GGG said no and turned down the Charlo fight?

Idk man I just don't really see the other situations the same as you I suppose...seems like you are just taking the one side you want to be true and ignoring the other side...and even overlooking the middle ground for those cases where some fights just don't happen...doesn't really mean there is a duck, just other things came up.

I do remember Ward actually dropping a belt rather than facing Anthony Dirrell...he said it made no money...and I think that's honestly worse than anything I've seen from GGG...GGG got stripped because he wanted to fight Canelo again and then Derevychenko...never actually dropped a belt...weird situation but honestly unfortunate in my view that GGG got penalized for that when the rematch got postponed to begin with because Canelo tested positive.

But it is what it is...to each his own my friend, we can all see what we want to see sometimes I suppose. Good chats.

What is the other side my guy? I mean GGG knew he was gonna be stripped if he didn't fight Dervy next and he actually could have. In what parlance does a fighter get to say...well I wanna fight him later and gets a pass. He dropped the belt to swerve a tough fight (he would win) before cashing in with Alvarez.

Lastly...Andre Dirrell and Ward were scheduled to fight but Dirrell pulled out due to health. Anthony was an upcomer and the WBC tried to force the fight. Difference between GGG and Ward....Ward had just won the Super Six. GGG has fought ONE fighter outside of Canelo the caliber of the Super Six.

[Boxing_1013]

What is the other side my guy? I mean GGG knew he was gonna be stripped if he didn't fight Dervy next and he actually could have. In what parlance does a fighter get to say...well I wanna fight him later and gets a pass. He dropped the belt to swerve a tough fight (he would win) before cashing in with Alvarez.

Lastly...Andre Dirrell and Ward were scheduled to fight but Dirrell pulled out due to health. Anthony was an upcomer and the WBC tried to force the fight. Difference between GGG and Ward....Ward had just won the Super Six. GGG has fought ONE fighter outside of Canelo the caliber of the Super Six.

Andre Dirrell pulled out of the Super Six with the injury and didn't face Ward...Anthony was the mandatory two years later in 2012 for the WBC.

I don't really follow the logic on the rest of that post either tbh...like I don't think that stuff would give Ward an excuse to swerve a mando and drop a belt ya know...also I'm on the record that I think GGG gets way too much stick for his resume as well...just a lot of good names on there imo, all decisive wins by KO...also Ward for me never really separated clearly from good fighters in fights boxing-wise and I think got a lot of help from the judging as the home fighter...just how I saw it.

And as a tough guy he could definitely get a little dirty..which I definitely like a little of...his fights vs Kov (2) and Kessler as examples, which should be good wins are just a little hazy for me since I think he was getting away with some stuff as the home fighter in those fights...in a more neutral setting he probably is DQd in one of those or at least penalized...Froch was a good solid win, I give him credit for that...I just never saw another good clear non-controversial win from him other than that one.

I even remember watching him vs Bika and Barrera and just seeing a lot of close rounds...he was a tough smart fighter for sure...I just never saw the really high level boxing skills and separation that I see from a Floyd, GGG, Lara in a lot of rounds...just how I saw it...just never came out of a lot of rounds in his fights saying 'that was a clear Ward round'...just a lot of tight close rounds usually.

With the GGG-Dervy situation...Vanes could have come in and fought on the original May 5th date...Dervy and Andrade probably would have taken the fight with GGG...but it would have taken months to negotiate and GGG would have lost that date through no fault of his own.

Also would have pushed back the GGG-Canelo 2 fight and since GGG didn't really do anything wrong to push back the rematch, I just think it was a little harsh that he was stripped...but it is what it is...I can see why it happened...he did end up choosing Canelo over Dervy but I think that was probably the right choice overall for a variety of reasons.

[Ake-Dawg]

Andre Dirrell pulled out of the Super Six with the injury and didn't face Ward...Anthony was the mandatory two years later in 2012 for the WBC.

I don't really follow the logic on the rest of that post either tbh...like I don't think that stuff would give Ward an excuse to swerve a mando and drop a belt ya know...also I'm on the record that I think GGG gets way too much stick for his resume as well...just a lot of good names on there imo, all decisive wins by KO...also Ward for me never really separated clearly from good fighters in fights boxing-wise and I think got a lot of help from the judging as the home fighter...just how I saw it.

And as a tough guy he could definitely get a little dirty..which I definitely like a little of...his fights vs Kov (2) and Kessler as examples, which should be good wins are just a little hazy for me since I think he was getting away with some stuff as the home fighter in those fights...in a more neutral setting he probably is DQd in one of those or at least penalized...Froch was a good solid win, I give him credit for that...I just never saw another good clear non-controversial win from him other than that one.

I even remember watching him vs Bika and Barrera and just seeing a lot of close rounds...he was a tough smart fighter for sure...I just never saw the really high level boxing skills and separation that I see from a Floyd, GGG, Lara in a lot of rounds...just how I saw it...just never came out of a lot of rounds in his fights saying 'that was a clear Ward round'...just a lot of tight close rounds usually.

With the GGG-Dervy situation...Vanes could have come in and fought on the original May 5th date...Dervy and Andrade probably would have taken the fight with GGG...but it would have taken months to negotiate and GGG would have lost that date through no fault of his own.

Also would have pushed back the GGG-Canelo 2 fight and since GGG didn't really do anything wrong to push back the rematch, I just think it was a little harsh that he was stripped...but it is what it is...I can see why it happened...he did end up choosing Canelo over Dervy but I think that was probably the right choice overall for a variety of reasons.

Both Vanes and Andrade are on record saying they would have fought for the money offered to Mungia (who was also intended to be a soft touch). As far as GGG making the right call regarding Dervy, from a business sense yes it is. However when such a call is made is brings scrutiny to past criticsms he laid on other fighters making business decisions. It also brings under scrutiny decisions made regarding not fighting the opponents I mentioned. Were those also business decisions to ensure the undefeated record and collision course with Alvarez or Mayweather (they begged for that fight).

This isn't a pass fail indictment. Its a hey, I'm pulling back some of the previous credit since it's readily apparent that 154-168 was more of a gimmick than a truism.

[j.razor]

I do disagree with a lot of your post, so I will respond...but I think you have me confused with someone else? Not sure lol.

We see all that stuff differently my friend...most notably I would say that Murray was just coming off a 'win' over Martinez in Argentina...so he was a top fighter at that time.

As far as 'elite' fighters...and this is in reference to the part of your response that I bolded as well...almost every great doesn't have multiple fights against other prime great fighters...just very rarely happens.

What great fighter in their prime did Floyd beat? Or Tyson? Or Hagler? They were all great for sure...but as far as great wins...where are they ya know?

As I mentioned previously as well...I think KOing 15 solid fighters all in their primes is just really impressive...most guys have a hiccup in those moments...Hagler vs Watts or Monroe...Hearns twice against Barkley etc...

I would also add that GGG outlanded Canelo/Danny in 27/33 rounds in those fights (3 tied rounds)...obviously the impact of punches counts as well...but GGG was pretty clearly to me landing just as strongly as his opponents in those fights...just strange to me honestly how a guy can be that dominant like that in those fights in a lot of ways and get no real credit for it lol.

But yeah all we can do is call it like we see it my friend...when I analyze GGG's resume/performances vs any other fighter, even ATGs, it stacks up very well imo...a lot of good clear dominant wins by KO...no real blemishes imo...if I saw/see a guy beat him in my view I will give them their props, I will know they earned it.

But yeah I guess agree to disagree here my friend.

The fighters you guys say were in their "prime" ducked Floyd. It goes to show they know they would of lost to Floyd regardless & Floyd was fighting people on winning streaks not on a losing end.

[Boxing_1013]

The fighters you guys say were in their "prime" ducked Floyd. It goes to show they know they would of lost to Floyd regardless & Floyd was fighting people on winning streaks not on a losing end.

I'm not hating on Floyd...I think he was great...just was responding to that guy who asked what great wins GGG had...and pointed out that even someone like Floyd with his great career has very few wins over a prime pfp fighter...just rarely happens that those guys match up...I would say most guys GGG fought were in their prime/at their best/ best weight even if they weren't HOfers...they were solid fighters imo.

I think 'ducking' is always subjective too imo...I would say that Floyd was always in control of who he fought in his Money May days...but yeah at the lower weights I don't think guys were lining up to fight him when he was KOing people in addition to outboxing them.

I think Floyd was very smart in how he played out his career...can't hate on him for that...I do think he knew when to pick certain guys, and as the A side he made sure the ball was in his court with things like weight, venue etc...but still a great boxer and probably the best of this generation imo.

[Boxing_1013]

Both Vanes and Andrade are on record saying they would have fought for the money offered to Mungia (who was also intended to be a soft touch). As far as GGG making the right call regarding Dervy, from a business sense yes it is. However when such a call is made is brings scrutiny to past criticsms he laid on other fighters making business decisions. It also brings under scrutiny decisions made regarding not fighting the opponents I mentioned. Were those also business decisions to ensure the undefeated record and collision course with Alvarez or Mayweather (they begged for that fight).

This isn't a pass fail indictment. Its a hey, I'm pulling back some of the previous credit since it's readily apparent that 154-168 was more of a gimmick than a truism.

I agree with the bold for sure...my opinion is the Andrade fight would have taken a while to negotiate and GGG just wanted a tune up on that original date before the big Canelo rematch in September...it was all probably worked out with Golden Boy who GGG would fight...doing too much on that date or pushing it back too far would jeopardize that Canelo rematch and neither side would want that.

I think the 154-168 thing was more of a comment by Sanchez (and I bet GGG agreed) that GGG would face anyone at those weights and win...and he would play the B side role to guys like Manny or Floyd and go down to 154...or Froch and Chavez and go to 168...for everyone else he would play the A side role and negotiate the fight terms.

Obviously Canelo was the clear A side too, but I think GGG felt like since Canelo was already fighting at MW, he wanted Canelo to come fight him at 160 and not a catchweight...I think the public pressure on Canelo at that time helped GGG's position, because in truth I think GGG could have negotiated more with Canelo to finally get that big money fight...but it turns out it worked for him anyway in the end.

GGG looks about the same to me as he always has...so I hope he has a few more fights in him...and if he does I would really expect him to fight Andrade, Charlo, Canelo etc in at least 2 or 3 of those fights. So yeah if he fights anyone soft in his next fight I would definitely criticize that move 100%. If he thinks he needs soft touches that much he is probably already focused on retiring and just waiting around for a 3rd Canelo payday.

[joseph5620]

I do disagree with a lot of your post, so I will respond...but I think you have me confused with someone else? Not sure lol.

We see all that stuff differently my friend...most notably I would say that Murray was just coming off a 'win' over Martinez in Argentina...so he was a top fighter at that time.

As far as 'elite' fighters...and this is in reference to the part of your response that I bolded as well...almost every great doesn't have multiple fights against other prime great fighters...just very rarely happens.

What great fighter in their prime did Floyd beat? Or Tyson? Or Hagler? They were all great for sure...but as far as great wins...where are they ya know?[/B]

As I mentioned previously as well...I think KOing 15 solid fighters all in their primes is just really impressive...most guys have a hiccup in those moments...Hagler vs Watts or Monroe...Hearns twice against Barkley etc...

I would also add that GGG outlanded Canelo/Danny in 27/33 rounds in those fights (3 tied rounds)...obviously the impact of punches counts as well...but GGG was pretty clearly to me landing just as strongly as his opponents in those fights...just strange to me honestly how a guy can be that dominant like that in those fights in a lot of ways and get no real credit for it lol.

But yeah all we can do is call it like we see it my friend...when I analyze GGG's resume/performances vs any other fighter, even ATGs, it stacks up very well imo...a lot of good clear dominant wins by KO...no real blemishes imo...if I saw/see a guy beat him in my view I will give them their props, I will know they earned it.

But yeah I guess agree to disagree here my friend.

Did you miss the Hearns fight? The Watts and Monroe fights were extremely controversial and both in their hometowns.

[j.razor]

Easy answer; we no longer have boxing fans we have #fanboysandhaters. Hardly anyone takes the methodical approach you do to analyzing a fight. EXCELLENT job. I primarily use this thread to troll haters and the like. Boxing site threads are so bad it's hard to take any serious anymore. You do an outstanding job.

A #fanboysandhater trying to flip the script

[j.razor]

Originally Posted by #1Assassin
stop comparing andrade to golovkin. andrade is arguably the most avoided fighter in the game, he has been screaming for the big fights and guys don't want to fight him. high risk low reward. BJS stepped up and agreed to fight him, but pissed hot. not andrade's fault who had agreed to the fight.

ggg can fight all the best guys, yet ducked and maneuvered around his whole career. props for fighting jacobs, but he lost and then ducked a rematch lol. some props for fighting canelo too, even though, again, he lost. and lets be real, nobody is ducking that canelo pay day.

ggg is a media creation, he bowed down on both knees and handed andre ward his nuts so the farce would go on. lmao

abel sanchez had to spoon him at night, rub his belly and whisper sweet nothings in his ear because he was having nightmares of being sonned by a boxing GOD. lol

The delusion here is strong here lol

But you always on the losing end so it must be your delusion.

[Boxing_1013]

Did you miss the Hearns fight? The Watts and Monroe fights were extremely controversial and both in their hometowns.

Of course...Hearns was a great win...one could quibble and say that Hearns was coming up in weight in his first fight, and I feel fought the wrong fight that night...think he should have boxed more...but Hagler being able to take Hearns' best shots and then put him out quickly is just an incredible win...showed Hagler's toughness and chin were second to none...as did the Mugabe fight imo, but less so because he wasn't on Tommy's level.

I watched the first Monroe fight once...never have seen it online since...it disappeared as far as I can tell...I thought it was a straightforward win for Monroe...he fought a similar fight to what Leonard did to Hagler and that one was very clear to me as well, for SRL...the Watts fight is online, I've watched it...Watts was the bigger man vs Hagler and basically just hit and held all night...kind of an ugly fight and I'm not really a fan of it but it was a straightforward win for Watts...at least what I was seeing.

Hagler was great but I do love when a guy gets KOs in fights like that...takes away any controversy ya know...I also feel as great as he was, he struggled against guys who could box and move and take a punch...smaller SRL and Duran (both of them old too) showed that, as did Monroe...but if you tried to go to war with the Marvelous one...well not even Tommy Hearns or Mugabe could put a dent in him, I think that says it all.

Also my conversation with that gentleman was about someone else's resume...I was saying it wasn't that bad, despite not really having a great KO or clear win over a prime great fighter (though I felt the 2 fights with Canelo were clear for GGG, imo)...most fighters are lucky to have 1...Hagler had one and it was certainly a great one over Hearns, and Hagler is universally acknowledged as an ATG even with the one great win. The rest of his work was good/really good and that's usually what greats have from what I have seen/researched.