Comments Thread For: Greed or greatness? How will we remember this heavyweight era

[rickJen]

GREED GREED GREED GREED...
Highlighted by no less than a guy named Deontay Wilder.
The greediest in boxing history.
It's not like he deserves all that money.
He doesn't with an abysmal record like his.

A shot at unifications, and become undisputed is no longer a prime motivation for these people.
A shameful era in boxing.

[kafkod]

There has been no counter offer that i know of. But there is a reason why AJ hasn't fully committed to DAZN. And AJ could have signed to Showtime but he ran to DAZN because Showtime was forcing the issue. Showtime could ante and bring the heat and maybe they are for the right time to do so. No ever though Wilders stock would rise the way it did and now he can't be lowballed. This is why ESPN and the ESPN offers were so big. As your comment about 2020....

AJ said from his own mouth in 2018 that he would he not be rushed into fighting Wilder. He will fight him when he is the position to win. That could be 2019, or 2020. Welp, he has one more year. And then you have a video on Youtube where Barry Hearn lays out a 7 year plan that didnt include a Wilder fight. So BOTH fighters are on par. And again, why aren't fans urging AJ to sign exclusively to DAZN?

Why should they?

Nobody is urging Wilder to sign exclusively to DAZN, so why should AJ need to do it?

[Eff Pandas]

The thread subject is greed. The AJ/Fury/Wilder fights aren't happening due to greed and them pricing themselves out against AJ.

When has Fury priced himself out? Idk that any serious offer has been made to him.

But you've said in the past that you don't mind Wilder pricing himself out and should get what he can. You're actually defending him.

I disagree Wilder is pricing himself out is the first problem. I think its rather obvious he's not pricing himself out cuz his offer has doubled per fight from a $15M one fight deal to a $30M per fight 4 fight deal in about a 6 to 8 month period where all he did is lose (in my estimation) to Fury although in fairness to him it was officially deemed a draw.

This is a big fight. Sure Joshua puts the asses in the seats, but Joshua is gonna get his career best payday in this fight w/e Wilder is paid & that gives Wilder leverage & value. If that makes it a 50/50 split or 60/40 split or w/e split you wanna believe it is or should be is up for the players with skin in the game to decide.

But Wilder has even gone on record and said he won't accept 50/50 even if offered. I think he'll get even crazier and demand 60% like I've been saying for well over a year. He's said it before. But for the fans, he'll just take the 50/50.

See this is one of the fundamentals areas I think I disagree with a lot of boxing fans. And obviously you with. This is a negotiation man. I don't think you grasp that simple yet meaningful fact. You don't go into a negotiation with the highest you'll pay for that used car. You go with a low number. The dealer gives a higher number. You guys agree somewhere in the middle or some point of equal pain. Thats how negotiations work to me & most people I know. Idk how negotiations work with you & a high % of people on this site.

So Wilder saying x & Eddie saying y is the negotiation process. You've just deemed Wilder as being unrealistic in his demands & Eddie as being fair despite the deal doubling, per fight, after a draw. That says to me Wilder was giving a offer of less value then his worth. And I have no reason to yet believe Wilder has asked for beyond his worth cuz Eddie & Joshua are still talking offers. Wilder has leverage here.

But basically the bottom line is its a negotiation & you shouldn't believe that Wilder is asking for what he thinks his fair value is or that Eddie is trying to give Wilder his fair value. The truth likely is in the middle.

If we want these fights to happen, fighters and "Fans" should demand rational thought and being reasonable. That way the sport to get on with what it's supposed to be doing. If they don't, we won't even have a sport to follow because it wouldn't make any sense to follow with the way things are going. The fights won't happen due to greed, delusions and cowardice.

That fact that you even bring up cowardice shows you have little respect for boxers. You don't get in the ring if you are a coward in the first place let alone reach the level of the guys we talk about here day in, day out.

And hardcore fans have very little control in all this sh^t. There is a ton of money in the sport right now & hardcore fans are going to be steered towards every platform if they are true hardcore fans. The people with the real power are the casual fans cuz the casual fans bring in that sexy money & right now the fans don't even care about Wilder vs Joshua (or Spence vs Bud) that much for those fights to be worth it I'd argue & thats why they haven't happened yet. And unless Joshua has a big US debut that hits with the fans I don't expect my ETA of 2020 gets pushed up to late 2019 cuz Joshua needs more of a Q score in the US for this fight to match expectations.

Thats how things go at the highest levels of the sport. I wish it was different myself, but the whole structure of how boxing works needs to be changed for the reality we live in to become different. No boxers are going to fight their biggest fights for 70% of the money they could be fighting it for in 12-18 months. Its bad business & as hardcore fans we aren't going anywhere so the only incentive is to get the casuals interesting not a fear of losing the hardcore base.

So I get your overall stance (minus the greed & coward bs), but you aren't being realistic.

[nacho daddy]

watch Vitale fight Danny Williams. a perfect display of offense and defense put on by Vitale. he was a viscious guy and did take pleasure in punishing some guys. He was not a one punch KO guy but hit hard enough to negate what the other fighter could do then it was just a round by round beating. he ruined a lot of careers that way danny Williams one of them

[nacho daddy]

There's a Vitali fight, I forget which one, where he's picking some poor ba+ard apart and seems to be intentionally prolonging the punishment. One of the commentary guys says something to the extent of, "People complain but I somehow think we're going to miss them when they're gone."
At the time it seemed like a funny statement. But, in retrospect, man is it true.

When I see people talk about Fury putting on a "boxing clinic" in the Wilder fight, I wanna show them an old Vitali fight where putting on a clinic means you actually HURT the guy, and you don't get dropped on your ass twice.

This era is a nothing great but the personalities and promotions are much better so people are fooled into believing we've got something special going on here.

watch the Danny Williams fight where roy jones and lampley were tearing apart Vitale while he put on perfect offensive and defensive masterpiece annihilating Williams and ending his career. Vitale punched hard enough to totally negate a fighters response then it was just a beat down. BTW Fury won the wilder fight

[rickJen]

Team Wilder will be remembered as the greediest in all of boxing history.
Anyone you know in the past that had this insatiable appetite for money?

[Sid-Knee]

When has Fury priced himself out? Idk that any serious offer has been made to him.



I disagree Wilder is pricing himself out is the first problem. I think its rather obvious he's not pricing himself out cuz his offer has doubled per fight from a $15M one fight deal to a $30M per fight 4 fight deal in about a 6 to 8 month period where all he did is lose (in my estimation) to Fury although in fairness to him it was officially deemed a draw.

This is a big fight. Sure Joshua puts the asses in the seats, but Joshua is gonna get his career best payday in this fight w/e Wilder is paid & that gives Wilder leverage & value. If that makes it a 50/50 split or 60/40 split or w/e split you wanna believe it is or should be is up for the players with skin in the game to decide.



See this is one of the fundamentals areas I think I disagree with a lot of boxing fans. And obviously you with. This is a negotiation man. I don't think you grasp that simple yet meaningful fact. You don't go into a negotiation with the highest you'll pay for that used car. You go with a low number. The dealer gives a higher number. You guys agree somewhere in the middle or some point of equal pain. Thats how negotiations work to me & most people I know. Idk how negotiations work with you & a high % of people on this site.

So Wilder saying x & Eddie saying y is the negotiation process. You've just deemed Wilder as being unrealistic in his demands & Eddie as being fair despite the deal doubling, per fight, after a draw. That says to me Wilder was giving a offer of less value then his worth. And I have no reason to yet believe Wilder has asked for beyond his worth cuz Eddie & Joshua are still talking offers. Wilder has leverage here.

But basically the bottom line is its a negotiation & you shouldn't believe that Wilder is asking for what he thinks his fair value is or that Eddie is trying to give Wilder his fair value. The truth likely is in the middle.



That fact that you even bring up cowardice shows you have little respect for boxers. You don't get in the ring if you are a coward in the first place let alone reach the level of the guys we talk about here day in, day out.

And hardcore fans have very little control in all this sh^t. There is a ton of money in the sport right now & hardcore fans are going to be steered towards every platform if they are true hardcore fans. The people with the real power are the casual fans cuz the casual fans bring in that sexy money & right now the fans don't even care about Wilder vs Joshua (or Spence vs Bud) that much for those fights to be worth it I'd argue & thats why they haven't happened yet. And unless Joshua has a big US debut that hits with the fans I don't expect my ETA of 2020 gets pushed up to late 2019 cuz Joshua needs more of a Q score in the US for this fight to match expectations.

Thats how things go at the highest levels of the sport. I wish it was different myself, but the whole structure of how boxing works needs to be changed for the reality we live in to become different. No boxers are going to fight their biggest fights for 70% of the money they could be fighting it for in 12-18 months. Its bad business & as hardcore fans we aren't going anywhere so the only incentive is to get the casuals interesting not a fear of losing the hardcore base.

So I get your overall stance (minus the greed & coward bs), but you aren't being realistic.

Eddie offered Fury 40% to fight AJ before he signed on to ESPN. But Fury didn't know how much money that was so asked for the flat fee. Eddie gave him a number running into the millions but he still didn't want to know. It was a hell of a lot more than the 7 Mill he got for Wilder.

You're pricing yourself out when offered money way beyond what you generate and you still turn it down. We're at 40 Mill for the AJ fight and he still doesn't want it. Unless of course you support him turning these offers down in the hope the price keeps rising? That's great logic.

AJ will barely get more than he's making now with the way things are going. Wilder however will get many times his biggest payday. And AJ is the star here, not that joke Wilder and his many delusions.

Wilder won't fight unless he gets the amount his cowardice will allow. Negotiations should be conducted with a rational and sane mind. Wilder is clearly incapable of doing so.

You start high in negotiations and get somewhere in the middle? Wilder won't fight for 25% though. It's already at 40% but he won't fight unless he gets more. He's even said he'll refuse the 50/50 offer. It's just a roadblock to stop the fight from happening. He doesn't believe he'll win so wants to use AJ's name to build his profile while acting tough fighting bums and fighters in bad situations.

Wilder was given a an offer less than his worth? Wilder doesn't have any worth here. What part of this information are you struggling with? If not, give me a break down on what he generates to see if these offers are not his true worth? It was bad before, but it's got even worse with ticket sales and viewing figures with him. His standing is falling. The offers are beyond great for a scrub like him. No other scrub has been offered such money before. Eddie and DAZN just want to get that title off him to crown an undisputed champion and move the division forward. They're not offering Wilder less than his worth. Wilder would have earned more than 10 Mill if that was the case. But he hasn't.

I have respect for fighters who are honest and want to prove themselves. Not delusional cowards who are nothing but bullies like Wilder who mouth off and fights lower ranked fighters while ducking the big fights. Anyone respecting that needs their head looking at. Wilder has no problem fighting them for a much lower paydays, but balks at the idea of fighting the one everyone wants for money beyond his worth? Nah, i'm not ****** enough to buy it.

If you're fine with this, then the sport will only get worse. I care for the sport and want it to thrive. But with the "Fans" we've got, that isn't going to happen. Fighters will look to Wilder and copy his moves to duck the fights that matter. Big fights will be even harder to come by. I've loved this sport for nearly 30 years, but i'm thinking hard about whether I want to continue following this pathetic excuse for a sport after all the madness that "Fighters" and "Fans" come out with. It's just too much. I really don't see the worth in it. Too much delusion and dishonesty for my liking.

[Eff Pandas]

You're pricing yourself out when offered money way beyond what you generate and you still turn it down.

I disagree. Was Charles Martin worth what Eddie paid him? How many seats was Charles Martin filling? How did Buster Douglas get $24M for the Holyfield fight back in the day? How much revenue was he generating?

Its clear you don't realize that leverage is a thing in negotiations. And the price going up is suggesting the leverage is real. And like I probably told you or others previously the next offer is gonna go up higher.

Negotiations should be conducted with a rational and sane mind.

Negotiations should be conducted in a way that gets the best results. If that works out for Wilder is yet to be seen, but so far he's doubled his value per fight & his quadrupled the length of the deal. How you can deny Wilder doesn't have leverage & has done solid negotiation after those results so far is beyond my understanding.

You start high in negotiations and get somewhere in the middle? Wilder won't fight for 25% though. It's already at 40% but he won't fight unless he gets more. He's even said he'll refuse the 50/50 offer.

Its hard to say what Wilder is 100% set in his ways on when its all talk & nothing has been signed so far. Its hard to say what Eddie or DAZN is 100% set in their ways on when there is no agreement yet.

It's just a roadblock to stop the fight from happening.

I anxiously await you backing up off this remark with some lame reasoning, like so much of your lame reasoning now, when this fight gets signed in 2020.

Wilder was given a an offer less than his worth? Wilder doesn't have any worth here.

Then Eddie & DAZN are straight f#cking r3tards to offer him so much money you'd agree then right?

What part of this information are you struggling with? If not, give me a break down on what he generates to see if these offers are not his true worth?

Look I'm not on Team Wilder. Sh^t man I'd have probably taken the 15M offer way back if I was Wilder, but I'd had probably taken a lesser offer earlier on in some other fight too cuz I'm not a gambler when it comes to millions of dollars. But boxers at this level of the sport are often gamblers for millions of dollars & they've been ******** on themselves since their pro debut. Its a fickle sport & only Wilder & his team knows the deal that makes sense to them.

But the flaw in your argument is that there is some equation which = x dollars per rating point, SM followers & PPV revenue or some sh^t. It don't work like that.

If you're fine with this, then the sport will only get worse.

Its hilarious you think my opinion is f#cking up boxing. Boxing doesn't care about hardcore fans opinions in general. Its all about the casual fan at this level of the game. This fight gets made when the casual fans care enough about it not when the hardcore fans "protest" by b^tching about it on online forums or w/e you think you are doing to "fight back" with your disagreements with Team Wilder.

Fair play to you, but your opinion don't mean sh^t to Joshua or Wilder & neither does mine & you're delusional if you think differently.

[Kiowhatta]

Fury v Wilder proved with some unseen possible exceptions that two of the three in the triumvirate CAN get a fight signed, sealed and delivered in a timely fashion.

A.J making his debut in the U.S against a TOP contender ( not a stiff, slow bum ) when he could have taken an easier challenge without much justified criticism proves at least he is willing to push his boundaries.

Wilder is the typical fighter in the mould of a Mayweather and Canelo - great fighters but with little to no room for higher than average risk. Neither travelled.

I feel A.J has the more relaxed temperament to be able to deal with a loss - Fury as well has already proved he can ‘come back’ whilst current Wilder fever is based on the omnipresent biased U.S media bubble.
If these guys don’t fight by the end of next year or at the very latest the first half of 2021, then history will be a harsh judge.
Lastly, there isn’t sufficient enough talent coming up to fill out four new champions, four new contenders post the current triumvirate - and that is well below what is needed for a minimum healthy division.