Comments Thread For: Luis Ortiz: If No Joshua or Wilder - Bring Me Tyson Fury!

[Jax teller]

Then what about Anthony Joshua? He hasn't done Jack shit in the Heavyweight division since defeating Wladimir Klitschko back in April 2017; When he was already showing signs of aging, decline and slippage.

I'll tell what he had been up to and doing since then; Avoiding Deontay Wilder by fighting in Great Britain. That's right.

For the calendar years of 2017, 2018 and 2019 he has been busy ducking Wilder because he's afraid. It's because he knows deep down, he cannot defeat Wilder and inevitably is going to get his asswhooped and knockout

Anthony Joshua reminds me a lot of Floyd patterson when he was ducking Sonny Liston back in the 1960s

AJ unifying and fighting mando's and debuting in America doing nothing in HW division and Wilder fighting Ortiz who shown signs of slipping against Allen and Scott and a Fury not back in any form agianst Seferi and Pianetta is sooo much better - Deontard logic

Wilder and Finkel send offers of but won't meet or send contract, say themselves AJ is begging for the fight and also won't respond to multiple offer being sent their way or negotiate better ones... "AJ ducking doe" - Deontard Logic

[Madison Boxing]

Slow old ortiz would barely land a punch on fury all fight. 120-108 fury

[Madison Boxing]

Look at all these excuses that the English fans are making up because they know stylistically, Ortiz is nightmare match up for Tyson Fury. Not only does Ortiz knows how to hit he also knows how to box.

He is not just a pure slugger like Wilder. He is versatile. He knows how to add many wrinkles to his game against a man that knows only one way to fight and who can neither punch or hurt him

Hes literally the easiest style match up for fury i could think of. Some slow smaller counter puncher with slow feet

[Oshio]

Fury-Ortiz would be a better fight than Wilder. Ortiz got the boxing skills to match Fury invisibility unlike amateurish Wilder

[champion4ever]

Ok, let me throw a few questions back at you which may or may not dissuade you from your opinion.

1. If Deontay Wilder is all about legacy and not about money and is happy to put his undefeated record on the line: -

a. Why didn't he insist on fighting Klitschko when Finkel said he isn't ready?

That lie has already been debunked because Wilder had indeed, requested and offered an undisputed heavyweight championship bout to Wladimir Klitschko but was turned down. It was because Wladimir said Deontay had to step up his level of opposition first.

You are forgetting that Wilder is his own man; Who is a born rebel, loner, staunchly independent and stubborn who doesn't give damn about nothing or whatever any ones says or care about him. You are quoting Finkel who is the agent that works for Deontay and not the two principles themselves.

b. Why did Wilder accept the $15m flat fee from Hearn and then not sign the contract to fight Joshua to become undisputed HW champion?

Once again, that is another untruth, Wilder did agreed to all of the terms and conditions set forth by Anthony Joshua on their revised counter offer; Including taking the $15mil flat fee, fighting on foreign soil, with no percentage, agreeing to the venue, ring size, judges and ring walk ins.

However, when Team Wilder exercised their due diligence they noticed several key logistical aspects missing from the contact like the date and named opponent. Then when Team Wilder requested for Hearn to fill in those details he rescinded the deal by fighting Povetkin instead which tells any right thinking, sensible and reasonable individual that Joshua and Hearn were never serious about making Wilder fight in the first place.

c. Why is Finkel now saying that Wilder will only fight Joshua when the conditions are right i.e. Wilder gets a bigger piece of the pie?

It's so obvious that the conditions aren't right. Wilder wants a 50/50 purse split all the way around or there will be no fight.

As I've said before, Wilder feels betrayed and doesn't trust Eddie Hearn or Anthony Joshua. Therefore, if both are really honest, sincere and serious about making this fight happening then they must be willing to bend and to bend some more in order to gain Deontay Wilder's trust again.

The thing about Deontay is that he won't settle or compromise for anything short of what he wants or feels is right.

2. If Joshua hasn't been putting his '0' on the line, why has he been fighting top 10 opponents for a longer time and from an earlier time in his career? More than Wilder and Fury. Remember, Wilder has only fought Ortiz and Fury from the WBC rankings, the division where HE is the Champion. Joshua has fought Whyte, Breazeale, Parker, Povetkin, Martin and Takam. 6 opponents, all who are rated in the top 15 by the WBC right now.

It's because almost all of those fighters; At least most of them are based in Europe. Also, for the exception of Dillian Whyte all of those names on that resume are cherrypicks. Deontay Wilder mops up the floor with that resume. The reason why Joshua got that IBF title because Eddie Hearn purchased it for $7mil; An offer that obviously Team Wilder could not match on a Showtime budget. Moreover, as far as Joseph Parker goes they were in negotiations for a unification bout but Team Parker pulled out after witnessing the Gerald Washington bout at ringside.

3. If Joshua isn't about legacy, why is it that he is the only one of the two fighters 'begging' for the fight to happen? A 60/40 offer and a two way rematch clause with the second fight being in America is more than fair for Wilder. It goes back to Finkel saying conditions need to be right...that's a money grab NOT about making a legacy.

Before I answer that question. My question to you is what took him so long? Sometimes in this world you are going to have to beg and wait for what you want. When Wilder was all prepared to board a flight to the U.K. Anthony Joshua canceled the fight in order to fight Povetkin instead. He did a bait and switch move. Which was wrong. If he wants a Wilder fight, then it must be done strictly on Wilder's terms and conditions now.


4.

I think there are a lot of people who would have fought Fury in the condition he was when the Wilder/Fury fight was made. If Joshua was then and still is now, the #1 rated HW, surely that makes him the most dangerous, feared, risky fight? Opinion only makes that different.

[/QUOTE]No it was Tyson Fury who reached out to Deontay Wilder for a challenge of his WBC heavyweight title and not the other way around. When he found Fury he was a forgotten man to the British public and higher than a junkie on a $100 coke habit. Fury got down on his hands and knees and begged Wilder for a voluntary and charitable defense of his title which Deontay granted. Wilder did not Fury. Fury needed Wilder. That's how he was able to get that ESPN deal by building his brand, name and profile in the states off Deontay Wilder's fame.

It would be true about Joshua but he doesn't take enough risks. For example since winning those titles from Klitschko he has done absolute shit in the Heavyweight division.

The man who has been making the most noise among the Heavyweights have been Deontay Wilder with two back to back undefeated and risky opponents who no one wanted to fight in Ortiz and Fury and probably a rematch with Fury while Joshua fights a tomato can named Jarrell Miller in America.

[champion4ever]

Lastly, your argument comparing Tyson vs Klitschko with Wilder vs Ortiz argument is a strawman's argument. In this instance, it's being used a diversionary tactic.

When Fury defeated Klitschko; He already been exposed and had over four losses and knockouts on his record. Moreover, Fury was already showing signs of aging, decline and slippage. That's why he lost his subsequent title bout to Joshua 17 months later.

In addition, Fury had popped dirty for doping, juicing and PED use.

[SeGoodland]

...

Not that I am trying to offend you or split hairs but it seems that I would never be able to convince you to look at this situation differently. That is the only consistent thing with Pro-Wilder posters, from what I can see since being on this forum.

Wilder accepted $15m, Joshua accepted $50m yet you see Joshua situation as something entirely different, whereas I see them as the same thing yet Wilder fans will dismiss this!

Wilder fought Ortiz and Fury, Joshua hasn't therefore we will overlook the previous 38 fighters and forget that Joshua has beaten more top rated fighters in Wilder division in half the fights yet Wilder fans dismiss this.

I mean, Joshua and Fury haven't fought yet because Fury spent 2 odd years out and has only really fought Wilder...so that's because Joshua and Fury haven't really had the chance to fight! Joshua has stated for a while now that he wants Wilder or Fury.

There are too many Anti-Joshua hypocritical and short term memory posts on this forum. That's not aimed specifically at you, more the broader population of Wilder fans.

[champion4ever]

How was Wilder v Ortiz 'special'?

Because it was a very good World heavyweight championship fight and a battle between two undefeated heavyweight fighters. Also, it was a bout, in which one of them was regarded as the most feared, dangerous and most avoided man in the division.

Are you saying that Fury v Klitschko wasn't?

No absolutely not; That fight had historical significance and importance to it. It was for the unified Heavyweight championship of the world; In addition, it was a crowd pleasing and entertaining heavyweight title fight.
However, at the same time; Even after a 17 month layoff. Wladimir was yet still showing signs of aging, slippage and decline. For example after that sixth round knockdown, Wladimir lacked the energy and stamina to put Joshua away.

When did Wladimir Klitschko get busted for PED abuse?

You are right. That was an error on my part. It was Fury who popped dirty for doping. My apologies, I extend my sincerest regrets.

I think you mean Klitschko lost to Joshua, not Fury.

Actually, Klitschko lost to them both. Fury defeated him first and was subsequently stripped of his championship titles for popping dirty for PED use and Joshua defeated him in front 90,000 fans at Wembley.

[champion4ever]

AJ unifying and fighting mando's and debuting in America doing nothing in HW division and Wilder fighting Ortiz who shown signs of slipping against Allen and Scott and a Fury not back in any form agianst Seferi and Pianetta is sooo much better - Deontard logic

Wilder and Finkel send offers of but won't meet or send contract, say themselves AJ is begging for the fight and also won't respond to multiple offer being sent their way or negotiate better ones... "AJ ducking doe" - Deontard Logic

That's why in business you should mean what you say and say what you mean. Joshua and Hearn knew fully well that they had no intentions of ever fighting Wilder back in September of 2018 as promised.

Well now they have to pay for their lies and deception. They did a bait and switch on Wilder which he has neither forgotten or forgiven.

My advice to Hearn and Joshua is get down on their hands and knees, beg for forgiveness and give Wilder everything he wants by kissing his ass real good or there very well may not be a fight after all.

[champion4ever]

Hes literally the easiest style match up for fury i could think of. Some slow smaller counter puncher with slow feet

However, Ortiz has great spacing, distance and range where he can close the gap on Fury very quickly.

Tyson may very well be able to run but he won't be able to hide. Ortiz cuts the ring off well and forces Tyson into some very uncomfortable exchanges and all Fury is going to do is hold.

Moreover, if he hits Fury as hard as he hit Christian hammer he drops him to the canvas at least six times. Also, keep in mind that Ortiz is a vicious body puncher too.