"Too Fast" Fury vs "Sonny" Liston: Who wins?

[PRINCEKOOL]

A new age of giant heavyweights who were actually good arrived in the 90s. Lewis being the major factor, then on to the klits, & now the present day.

The past 30yrs the longest reigning champs have generally been 6.5ft an above, which sort of tells us something. The smaller guys just cant cut it. Looking back on past heavyweights who were much smaller pre 70s & 80's Regardless how good some of them were, I think the outcome would just mirror what we have today.

There is only really one good well rounded super-heavyweight, who has displayed multi dimensional skills at elite level? And that heavyweight is Anthony Joshua. I don't rate Tyson Fury or Deontay Wilder with any of the top heavyweights from the 90's 'Thusfar from what I have seen of them at elite level;. 'The reason why all you see is big heavyweights now is also down to the dropping participation levels in heavyweight boxing, these days just being over 6"5 having a good level of fitness, and a ability to throw a punch? Can get you somewhere in the heavyweight game! The division used to be the most diverse division on the planet, Super-heavyweights have always been around! It is just more apparent now'...

[Cutthroat]

Fury is like a giant version of Ali, easy and I mean EASY work.

[Cutthroat]

There is only really one good well rounded super-heavyweight, who has displayed multi dimensional skills at elite level? And that heavyweight is Anthony Joshua. I don't rate Tyson Fury or Deontay Wilder with any of the top heavyweights from the 90's 'Thusfar from what I have seen of them at elite level;. 'The reason why all you see is big heavyweights now is also down to the dropping participation levels in heavyweight boxing, these days just being over 6"5 having a good level of fitness, and a ability to throw a punch? Can get you somewhere in the heavyweight game! The division used to be the most diverse division on the planet, Super-heavyweights have always been around! It is just more apparent now'...

If any 6'5+ guy could win a title then Gerald Washington, Audley Harrison, David Price, etc. would all be champions. That just isn't true.

You cannot find a single 6'9 250lb HW in the history of boxing that was as mobile as Tyson Fury, none at all. Wilder is also one of the quickest and fastest HW's of all time.

The "elite, well rounded" guys like Lewis were losing to journeymen like McCall, Tyson to Douglas, Moorer to Foreman etc. Wilder, AJ, Fury have yet to taste defeat to any of these guys.


HW boxing participation levels are actually up worldwide, there are 2 billion more people on this planet than there were in the 90's, 3.7 billion more than when there were in Liston's era.

International boxing in particular is leaps and bounds ahead of where it used to be, Andrew Golota, Zelko Mavrovic, these stand out Euros from the 90's are not better than the vast majority of Euro level Hw's you see in this era.

[PRINCEKOOL]

If any 6'5+ guy could win a title then Gerald Washington, Audley Harrison, David Price, etc. would all be champions. That just isn't true.

You cannot find a single 6'9 250lb HW in the history of boxing that was as mobile as Tyson Fury, none at all. Wilder is also one of the quickest and fastest HW's of all time.

The "elite, well rounded" guys like Lewis were losing to journeymen like McCall, Tyson to Douglas, Moorer to Foreman etc. Wilder, AJ, Fury have yet to taste defeat to any of these guys.


HW boxing participation levels are actually up worldwide, there are 2 billion more people on this planet than there were in the 90's, 3.7 billion more than when there were in Liston's era.

International boxing in particular is leaps and bounds ahead of where it used to be, Andrew Golota, Zelko Mavrovic, these stand out Euros from the 90's are not better than the vast majority of Euro level Hw's you see in this era.

Why can't Tyson Fury fight on the inside? Why has he only shown one style of fighting at elite level? His height and reach, creates the illusion that he is massively massively mobile, in reality he is not massively mobile in my opinion 'But the man can move, make no doubt about it' Today's super-heavyweights are not leaps and bounds ahead of the fighters from the past decades 'From a technical perspective, you seriously cannot think Deontay Wilder is some how transcending the sport?' Everybody is talking about how, Tyson Fury exposed Deontay Wilder, but a trained eye will understand that both Tyson Fury & Deontay Wilder exposed themselves 'At elite level against any heavyweight who is not intimidated by his size? Tyson Fury is one dimensional thus far in his career'. Looks like a one trick pony to me, with his very awkward violent game of tick style, but there will be a point where that style does not work 'Probably would not of worked against Wladimir Kiltschko in the rematch and I don't think it will work against Anthony Joshua'......I commend the man for his recent performances, but I just don't see this all time great heavyweight thus-far, people for some reason seem to be complete hysteria with Tyson Fury's recent performances 'Vividly clear to me that Anthony Joshua is the best heavyweight at this point in time'...

For a large majority of the last century boxing for a very long time, was the only real sport which could take you from the streets to rubbing shoulders with royalty. People used to fight not all the time because they dreamed of fighting, they fought because they had to! it was the only way, the big ticket out of the struggle! The African Americans, the Italians, the Irish etc

But with the professional of other sports, the qaulity of participation levels have dropped. The accessibility of education, professionalism of other less brutal sports have all effected boxing, it is a different kind of sport boxing? the last of its kind, it is the last working class blue collar sport.

[Cutthroat]

Why can't Tyson Fury fight on the inside? Why has he only shown one style of fighting at elite level? His height and reach, creates the illusion that he is massively massively mobile, in reality he is not massively mobile in my opinion 'But the man can move, make no doubt about it' Today's super-heavyweights are not leaps and bounds ahead of the fighters from the past decades 'From a technical perspective, you seriously cannot think Deontay Wilder is some how transcending the sport?' Everybody is talking about how, Tyson Fury exposed Deontay Wilder, but a trained eye will understand that both Tyson Fury & Deontay Wilder exposed themselves 'At elite level against any heavyweight who is not intimidated by his size? Tyson Fury is one dimensional thus far in his career'. Looks like a one trick pony to me, with his very awkward violent game of tick style, but there will be a point where that style does not work 'Probably would not of worked against Wladimir Kiltschko in the rematch and I don't think it will work against Anthony Joshua'......I commend the man for his recent performances, but I just don't see this all time great heavyweight thus-far, people for some reason seem to be complete hysteria with Tyson Fury's recent performances 'Vividly clear to me that Anthony Joshua is the best heavyweight at this point in time'...

For a large majority of the last century boxing for a very long time, was the only real sport which could take you from the streets to rubbing shoulders with royalty. People used to fight not all the time because they dreamed of fighting, they fought because they had to! it was the only way, the big ticket out of the struggle! The African Americans, the Italians, the Irish etc

But with the professional of other sports, the qaulity of participation levels have dropped. The accessibility of education, professionalism of other less brutal sports have all effected boxing, it is a different kind of sport boxing? the last of its kind, it is the last working class blue collar sport.

Fury is 6'9 with an 85" reach and utilizes footwork that is up there with ANY heavy in history, it makes no sense to fight inside. His mobility is not an illusion.

Wilder possesses speed, power, and reflexes never seen before from a man his size. Even greater power than what made many guys champions in the past. You cannot find a HW his size that was capable of throwing KO punches from awkward angles like him.


Speaking of skill, Foreman's defensive skill was FAR behind that of Fury's, AJ's, Wilder's, Ortiz's, etc. he utilized a mummy-push off-forehead defense, that **** would get you knocked out in this era. All 3 super heavies possess greater speed, better footwork, better distance management, etc. than Foreman did.



Population changes, demographics, science, etc. all these things have gotten bigger, better. A ton of athletes back in the day didn't know crap about nutrition, they weren't healing from injuries properly, they had poor medical treatment etc.

Not to mention the Soviet Union banned pro boxing up until like 90.
Again, Euro boxing was not better back in those days, and it did not prevent guys from being champions, contenders etc. guys like Golota were beating Bowe, contenders like Mavorvic were giving scares to champions like Lewis etc.

-Lomachenko is probably going to go down as the greatest EE fighter of all time.

-ggg the best EE MW of all time.

-Usyk the greatest EE cruiser of all time.

-LHW is absolutely loaded with Gvozdyk, Bivol, Kovalev, Beterbiev, etc. every single one of these guys is better than Dariusz Michalzewski, who went 48-2 (48-0 at one point) in the 90's era that RJJ was fighting in.

[LoadedWraps]

Why can't Tyson Fury fight on the inside? Why has he only shown one style of fighting at elite level? His height and reach, creates the illusion that he is massively massively mobile, in reality he is not massively mobile in my opinion 'But the man can move, make no doubt about it' Today's super-heavyweights are not leaps and bounds ahead of the fighters from the past decades 'From a technical perspective, you seriously cannot think Deontay Wilder is some how transcending the sport?' Everybody is talking about how, Tyson Fury exposed Deontay Wilder, but a trained eye will understand that both Tyson Fury & Deontay Wilder exposed themselves 'At elite level against any heavyweight who is not intimidated by his size? Tyson Fury is one dimensional thus far in his career'. Looks like a one trick pony to me, with his very awkward violent game of tick style, but there will be a point where that style does not work 'Probably would not of worked against Wladimir Kiltschko in the rematch and I don't think it will work against Anthony Joshua'......I commend the man for his recent performances, but I just don't see this all time great heavyweight thus-far, people for some reason seem to be complete hysteria with Tyson Fury's recent performances 'Vividly clear to me that Anthony Joshua is the best heavyweight at this point in time'...

For a large majority of the last century boxing for a very long time, was the only real sport which could take you from the streets to rubbing shoulders with royalty. People used to fight not all the time because they dreamed of fighting, they fought because they had to! it was the only way, the big ticket out of the struggle! The African Americans, the Italians, the Irish etc

But with the professional of other sports, the qaulity of participation levels have dropped. The accessibility of education, professionalism of other less brutal sports have all effected boxing, it is a different kind of sport boxing? the last of its kind, it is the last working class blue collar sport.

Fury has shown he can win at any level and with any style, you actually need to watch his fights before Wlad.

He is a near perfect fighter, boxing's Achilles, Sweet Pea in Goliath's body. He can beat you from any stance, he can't be touched, he has a chin that makes Margarito look like Amir Con, and he can land from any angle, standing or moving.

It's not his fault he can dominate the best in the division using a jab and feints, and some slips and rolls out of a philly variation and while still maintaining ring generalship.

The only times Fury loses ROUNDS is when he is goofing off, showboating because he is usually coasting at the time.

If we see another fighter actually push Fury and make him move from a game of pawns to actual chess moves with complexity, you will see him let his sledgehammer fists go, and when Fury lets his hands go, GG.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Fury has shown he can win at any level and with any style, you actually need to watch his fights before Wlad.

He is a near perfect fighter, boxing's Achilles, Sweet Pea in Goliath's body. He can beat you from any stance, he can't be touched, he has a chin that makes Margarito look like Amir Con, and he can land from any angle, standing or moving.

It's not his fault he can dominate the best in the division using a jab and feints, and some slips and rolls out of a philly variation and while still maintaining ring generalship.

The only times Fury loses ROUNDS is when he is goofing off, showboating because he is usually coasting at the time.

If we see another fighter actually push Fury and make him move from a game of pawns to actual chess moves with complexity, you will see him let his sledgehammer fists go, and when Fury lets his hands go, GG.

Tyson Fury did not dominate Wladimir Kiltschko, this is excalty what I mean by? People overrating his performances. Wladimir Kiltschko was not beaten up and he backed Tyson Fury up all night.

Time will tell, and when Tyson Fury faces Anthony Joshua? Joshua will go through him like paper mashe

[LoadedWraps]

It did not dominate Wladimir Kiltschko, this is excalty what I mean by? People overrating his performances. Wladimir Kiltschko was not beaten up and he backed Tyson Fury up all night.

Time will tell, and when Tyson Fury faces Anthony Joshua? Joshua will go through him like paper mashe

The real question is, will AJ be able to bring the best out of Fury?

Fury is going to come in there and bully AJ, might stop him in the mid rounds if AJ can't find a way to make Fury respect him.

[elfag]

Wlad didn’t stop Fury. Neither did Wilder.

Transport that Liston to present day and he wouldnt hold a title. Not 1.



That doesn’t matter as he’s also slower.. and less skilled. And it doesnt matter if he had long reach, his legs are still much shorter. Fury has nearly a foot of height on him which is not something Liston had the ability to overcome. They’re not punching at the same target where their reach is equal. Fury just has to lean slightly away to have his head be entirely unreachable.

Liston was good in his day...and that day was not today... he would be a cruiser and he wouldnt beat Usyk either.



Time and evolution/vast improvements in sports science and training dont give a f uck about nostalgia.

And?

Cunningham and Wilder both dropped Fury. Its really inconceivable that Liston could also drop Fury and finish him off when he was the same weight as them?

You think Liston is less skilled than Wilder's windmilling?

Is he less skilled than Cunningham?

What does Fury's close UD over a Wladimir who was 4 months shy of 40 years old have to do with talking prime vs prime match ups?

[Damn Wicked]

Liston's hands were way too slow and his feet were even slower. Yes, he was a strong fighter but he wasn't a particularly intelligent fighter. He had many shortcomings. I begrudgingly think Fury is a very good fighter and freakishly athletic for such a big douche. In fact there has NEVER been a fighter the size of Fury that could move on their feet like him...Only months before he fought Wladimir did I realize how good he truly was...I saw him in training for the Klitschko fight and for the first time I started to have doubts about Klitschko winning....I didn't believe Fury would come back from his lay-off either...How many fighters can balloon to a morbidly obese weight, remain out of boxing for 3 years, be a coke head and come back to compete with the other top young champs in his division??? One thing I wasn't as surprised about, is when Fury got up from those Wilder knock downs. Fury always struck me as a stubborn, crazy guy. When Cunningham knocked him down, he got up angry and went after him immediately, just as he did with Wilder...That showed me that he was a guy who has a special, determined mentality. This guy is an absolute freak of nature. I hope he hangs around so we can see his full potential.