Anyone who thinks Wilder has a chance knows shiat about boxing.

[VatoMulatto]

Anyone who doesn't think Wilder has a shot don't know sh-t about boxing. A puncher like Wilder always got a shot no matter who he fights. Using that logic Ortiz should've won cause he's the better and more skilled boxer. Wilder has already beaten several fighters who are better boxer than him.

[hugh grant]

Huh?

Hugh, I usually think you're a level headed poster but you can't possibly really believe this.

Well, I said what I said with a question mark.
Wilder does hit harder, but as he is smaller furys blows will feel heavier than they ordinarily might be.
Wilder will be just as cautious of furyss punches even though fury has reputation for not being hardest hitter.
I'm sure fury will like to get a few heavy blows in early to keep wilder honest

[Boxing Goat]

Well, I said what I said with a question mark.
Wilder does hit harder, but as he is smaller furys blows will feel heavier than they ordinarily might be.
Wilder will be just as cautious of furyss punches even though fury has reputation for not being hardest hitter.
I'm sure fury will like to get a few heavy blows in early to keep wilder honest

I wouldn't call Fury a modest puncher by any means but he's nowhere in the neighborhood of Wilders power, regardless of weight. Wilder has atg power while Fury has just respectable power for this era.

That's not to say that Fury can't KO Wilder, but in my opinion, he better have his track shoes on to avoid getting hit because we both know wilder has dynamite in both hands and if he lands, Fury will be in big, big trouble.

[Zn1]

I wouldn't call Fury a modest puncher by any means but he's nowhere in the neighborhood of Wilders power, regardless of weight. Wilder has atg power while Fury has just respectable power for this era.

That's not to say that Fury can't KO Wilder, but in my opinion, he better have his track shoes on to avoid getting hit because we both know wilder has dynamite in both hands and if he lands, Fury will be in big, big trouble.

ATG punchers have faced fighters with historically great chins and obliterated them as if they were made of china. MAYBE Wilder is in that esteemed group, but who has he stopped that was considered unstoppable?

[Boxing Goat]

ATG punchers have faced fighters with historically great chins and obliterated them as if they were made of china. MAYBE Wilder is in that esteemed group, but who has he stopped that was considered unstoppable?

Lol!

Oh yeah? Give an example. And it's pretty apparent that with Wilders 39 KO's in 40 fights and how he hurts people badly with shots that don't even land all that clean. At some point, you have to use common sense. Wilder's power is ridiculous.

[Zn1]

Lol!

Oh yeah? Give an example. And it's pretty apparent that with Wilders 39 KO's in 40 fights and how he hurts people badly with shots that don't even land all that clean. At some point, you have to use common sense. Wilder's power is ridiculous.

[famicommander]

ATG punchers have faced fighters with historically great chins and obliterated them as if they were made of china. MAYBE Wilder is in that esteemed group, but who has he stopped that was considered unstoppable?

Ortiz was never down as a pro until Wilder put him down three times and got the KO.

And Fury's chin is suspect:



Cunningham was a blown up cruiserweight with no significant wins at heavyweight, Pajkic was a straight bum.

If both those two can put Fury down, Wilder can put him out. No question about it.

[Zn1]

Ortiz was never down as a pro until Wilder put him down three times and got the KO.

And Fury's chin is suspect:



Cunningham was a blown up cruiserweight with no significant wins at heavyweight, Pajkic was a straight bum.

If both those two can put Fury down, Wilder can put him out. No question about it.

Luis Ortiz hasn't faced elite opposition either


I don't disagree with anything you said below the gifs though

[billeau2]

I didn't know Max wasn't jewish!

I always assumed jews and blacks boxed more often then punched because Daniel The Jew Mendoza held a whole lot of influence on his own and the star pupils of Mendoza School were black.

I have no history to validate this, but I always just assumed from there black guys were inspired by the black fellas Mendoza trained, like Bill Richmond and Tom Molyneaux, and given Mendoza himself was jewish and didn't let anyone forget that fact he just being him was inspiration for the jews.

As far as why Mendoza himself boxed the way he did I can only assume The Jew was a clever bastard. There is mention of defense prior to Mendoza, even movement and what not, but it seems he's the first man to make it central to his fight plan. Given his whole promotion centered around being Jewish during the inquisition era sentiments toward jews I'm sure he was plenty inspiration for young european jews.

It's easy to assume Danny is the answer, but like I said it's all just assumption on my part. He's kind of the architype one way or another though....and it is striking how similar Floyd was to Mendoza, but still I have no historical connections.


Sorry, I didn't mean to ramble about jewish boxing, it's just that it's interesting to me and once I got going this come of it.

I forgot where I read about Max, but it was a good source, and if one thinks about his brothers and the family, it does make sense.

You know for most modern history the Jews and Blacks were comrades. Civil rights, in the cities and in the boxing universe... It drives me nuts how quickly that was forgotten today by so many. Boxing has these archetypes...You actually described it beautifully. During the Wars between the Greeks and the Persians and subsequent martial and sport activities we can glimpse at what was valued, as you stated...Both cultures emphasized physical fitness, something you even see in the ancient wrestling tradition of Iran (Persian). To this way of thinking the physical prowess was emphasized.

In India the Sikhs among others, have preserved some of their fighting traditions....and not the Sikh art called Gatga! But these arts emphasize principles of weight distribution and distance, timing, they are very technical with a multitude of different blades, postures, footwork, etc. I find them incredible as a martial artist.

The Jews also had a tendency to favor technical advantages, using efficiency and slieght of hand. To me when we make these distinctions, its not that we are reducing it to race, as though Jewishness, Sikhism, Hellenism, makes one fight that way...but the cultural conditions that brought a particular people up, seemed to create choices, advantages and disadvantages. Its all over boxing, we have the highly technical Cubans, the Mexican fighter who often deliberately changes the speed of punches to throw the opponent off, and do not lead with the jab. Again, its not something inherent about racially being Mexican, it has to do with the environment, cultural cues and how the fight game developed in that area as opposed to other areas.

Mendoza was indeed a phenom. I would put Gem Mace also in that early category of guys who broke with the conventions to develop techniques of defense related to boxing and not fencing. Figg was a swordsman. And up until even Dempsey, there was an emphasis on a structured and differentiated attack counter and defend mode. Guys like Corbett learned from the likes of mendoza, mace and Leonard. As a matter of fact to me Gene Tunney was perhaps the most remarkable figher because he learned and was mentored by Corbett and also understood enough about the modern (post Dempsey) emphasis on the punches, squaring up to punch, and pressuring with the punches.

Choyinsky also trained Johnson and I think he beat Johnson at one point... So Johnsons improvisational, fluid style was also a part of that heritage as well.

I think your comments reflect thinking and logical historical events that are often overlooked in the game. Just like the guys who think Marciano was a small, crude slugger... Just want to tell people who say this "sure thing! thats all that was needed to clean out a division of guys with skills, etc...a small crude guy who had two left feet." Goldman certainly was a genius but Marciano had to be talented beyond measure to impose his will on such men as Walcott, Charles, etc.

[famicommander]

Luis Ortiz hasn't faced elite opposition either


I don't disagree with anything you said below the gifs though

Who has Fury really beaten besides a shot Wlad? Chisora? Is he really all that much better than the names on Wilder or Ortiz's resumes?

To me this is a four man division right now. Wilder, Joshua, Ortiz, Pulev.