Who is the lineal HW champion?

[Phenom]

According to that definition neither Wlad nor Fury were lineal champions, because neither of them held all 4 recognised belts.

Vitali was the WBC champ, not Wlad - yeah they were 2 different guys!

Because those two never fought the lineal champ wasn't wlad I could see the argument for the Winner of Wilder v Fury being the lineal champ

[Pigeons]

Only arguments against Fury's status as lineal heavyweight champion:

2016

https://twitter.com/Tyson_Fury/status/782911970966138880?s=20

https://twitter.com/Tyson_Fury/status/782956211226292224?s=20

https://twitter.com/Tyson_Fury/status/782961951404134400?s=20

2017
http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/i...ial-media-post

[Bjl12]

Joshua is the top dog in the division at present.

Joshua beat the man and now he is the man.

Good bunch we have at HW for next year or so

[Accolade]

Joshua beat the man and now he is the man.

Good bunch we have at HW for next year or so

Beating a beltless 41 year old Klitschko coming off a 2 year layoff and a loss made Joshua the man? Christ, you're an idiot. Follow a different sport.

[aboutfkntime]

King Fury does not need belts

King Fury does not need awards or accolades

King Fury only needs a caravan and a constant supply of hedgehogs

Long Live The King !!

[New England]

no way

" lineage " is not determined by #1 facing #2..... because, #3 could be the better fighter

e.g. Povetkin could beat Joshua

the only way you can become " lineal " champ is by beating a unified (UNDISPUTED, so..... all 4 recognized titles) champ..... and Fury is the only guy who did that

the IBO doesn't count

the only fight that could currently achieve that is Wilder/Joshua..... until that happens, Fury is the lineal champ

I accept the argument that Fury retired..... but it is a weak argument, because nobody thought that Fury had really retired

that's not been the case historically. the ring magazine title used to esssentially be the lineal title. it was called the bible of boxing, writers used to score fights [called newspaper decisions,] it was basically the real title.

ring mag would allow the #1 and #2 fighters to reestablish lineage in the event of a vacancy due to retirement. in an era where there were fewer divisions, fewer belts [1 per for the most part,] and guys would take non title defenses between fights for the money it was almost never the case that a fighter would retire as champion, so rarely was there a need for a box off.

tyson fury retired. he didn't fight for more than two years. when you do that you are no longer the lineal champion.

when joshua finally fights wilder the fight will be for the lineal championship, not because joshua is the lineal champion, but because they will be # 1 and 2 and boxing for a vacant lineage.

[New England]

Only arguments against Fury's status as lineal heavyweight champion:

2016

https://twitter.com/Tyson_Fury/status/782911970966138880?s=20

https://twitter.com/Tyson_Fury/status/782956211226292224?s=20

https://twitter.com/Tyson_Fury/status/782961951404134400?s=20

2017
http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/i...ial-media-post

when you retire for two years you lose your championship. crazy, i know.

[N/A]

tyson fury retired. he didn't fight for more than two years. when you do that you are no longer the lineal champion.

There have been longer layoffs than two years before, so that part is irrelevant.

The only argument is whether he actually retired. He tweeted that he was retired, then tweeted that it was just a joke. So it's not a cut and dry situation.

I personally thought the title should have been considered vacant when he said he was retired, but he was having a mental breakdown and giving mixed messages and nobody was quite sure if he was retired or not. No matter how you slice it, he's the man who beat the man, which is what the lineal title is supposed to be about. The consensus among the media right now seems to be that he is still lineal champion and personally I'm fine with that because I want the heavyweight lineage to have as few breaks as possible. Would be damaging to the historical legitimacy to start unnecessarily adding breaks to the lineage.

Fury beat Klitschko. Fury is active and fighting. #1 never fought #2 during Fury's hiatus. Fury said he was retired, but then said he was joking. Benefit should be given to not breaking the lineage.

[techliam]

Beating a beltless 41 year old Klitschko coming off a 2 year layoff and a loss made Joshua the man? Christ, you're an idiot. Follow a different sport.

Almost as absurd as the theory that a man automatically takes over a lineage by picking up a vacant belt... when one retires, that’s the end of the line. His record does not become embued in a title

That’s the issue with Fury. Did he retire, or not? There’s currently no consensus on whether there is a lineal champion. So without consensus, Furys claim is fairly weak, albeit the strongest one out there

[aboutfkntime]

that's not been the case historically. the ring magazine title used to esssentially be the lineal title. it was called the bible of boxing, writers used to score fights [called newspaper decisions,] it was basically the real title.

ring mag would allow the #1 and #2 fighters to reestablish lineage in the event of a vacancy due to retirement. in an era where there were fewer divisions, fewer belts [1 per for the most part,] and guys would take non title defenses between fights for the money it was almost never the case that a fighter would retire as champion, so rarely was there a need for a box off.

tyson fury retired. he didn't fight for more than two years. when you do that you are no longer the lineal champion.

when joshua finally fights wilder the fight will be for the lineal championship, not because joshua is the lineal champion, but because they will be # 1 and 2 and boxing for a vacant lineage.

yes, they were the bible of boxing..... but now they are just another opinion that is not definitive

The Ring do not sanction, and they do not mandate, they are just a magazine

ranking Canelo the #1 middleweight for beating 153lb Cotto..... despite the fact that Canelo had never faced a genuine middleweight opponent, had never weighed more than 155, and had insisted that he will remain at 154..... was WAKK !

they did the same with Adonis Stevenson

but they do not create lineage, the cycle of lineage follows "undisputed"

the terms lineage, and undisputed, did not exist back in the day, when there was only 1 sanctioning body..... back when there was only one title, there was no such thing as the lineal champion..... we did not need a lineal champion because we had a real one

it is the advent of the 2nd/3rd/4th OFFICIAL sanctioning bodies that muddied the waters, and The Ring have become just another opinion to add to the pile

The Ring #1 is not the lineal champ..... it could be, if he either holds all 4 belts or if he beat the guy who did

The Ring highest ranking LHW are Kovalev/Bivol..... if they fought, according to The Ring the winner would be ranked #1..... problem is, Stevenson is a title-holder and he could beat either of them..... so, neither could be called "undisputed"

you need to hold all of the major titles, or you need to beat the guy who did