If Joshua was fighting people like gavern after 30 fights...

[Madison Boxing]

Stop pretending to be ******. Wilder is raw. He fought bums because thats all he could beat.

The people you mention are far more developed as you are aware. Salido was the underdog, that was a cherrypick gone wrong because Loma hadn't adjusted to the size differential.

Wilder isn't protecting his ) or whatever ******ed Floyd related theories you guys come up with.

he is a raw, undisciplined power puncher with low to mid level skill that has fought comparably skilled but far less powerful opponents. He has defeated Stivernne and just beat Ortiz.

Aj should beat him. Now just admit you fear his raw power may end Aj's reign

He was an Olympic bronze medallist ffs lol, how long does it take to iron out creases. You don't need 39 damn fights and to be in your 30s.

[Vinnykin]

Id argue that prime haye was much more dangerous than Ortiz too. About 3 times quicker.

Prime Haye would have destroyed any version of Ortiz, never mind the off-peds, 38 year old, podgy version.

[Madison Boxing]

it all depends, was he ready for the big fights? I don't think so, he wasn't well refined, and to be fair at that point he didn't even get any respect. However, now he should get the respect for what he is doing and where he is heading. Not to Dirty JCCs name but he fought way worse fighters much later in his career but he still gets respect because he did take on the tough challenges when he was ready.

He's still not refined though. He's exactly what he was a few years ago which is why he should have been taking tougher fights a lot earlier.

[The Big Dunn]

Agree with most of it, but Salido wasn't a cherry pick. If picking a fighter you think you can bit is a Cherry pick then 99% of the fights are cherry picks.

You know what I mean. Loma shouldn't have lost to Salido but he did. It wasn't that he took a risk like Dranshow claimed.

Things just went wrong.

He was an Olympic bronze medallist ffs lol, how long does it take to iron out creases. You don't need 39 damn fights and to be in your 30s.

Can't disagree with any of this.

[DuckAdonis]

You know what I mean. Loma shouldn't have lost to Salido but he did. It wasn't that he took a risk like Dranshow claimed.

Things just went wrong.



Can't disagree with any of this.

Salido cheated coming in overweight for the fight and fighting like a dirty mofo in there. It was Lomachenkos first ever 12 round fight in his 2nd fight against a former world champ and veteran like salido. How the hell is that a cherry pick...? And he still only lost a split decision after almost finishing salido in the 12th

Now move on to wilder.. when has he ever faced that kinda risk

[Big Ukrainian]

Valuev fought better opponents than Wilder for sure, lots of unbeaten guys coming up. He was only champion in his last 3rd fight, and then defended against Holyfield and Haye.... so he fought better fighters in defences as well.

You can't argue Wilder has the worst run into a WBC title fight, and then the worst run of defences.

If you can find me one boxer that defended the HW title against 7 worse opponents than WIlder, I'll be shocked, but I'll admit I'm hardly a historian of the sport.

Valuev's resume in the 39 first fights was even worse that Wilder's one. Wilder at least fought one top-10 opponent prior to Ortiz (Stiverne-1), Valuev didn't. But I agree that Wilder has the worst run of title defences in the heavyweight history.

[RightJabLikeZab]

Prime Haye would have destroyed any version of Ortiz, never mind the off-peds, 38 year old, podgy version.

Prime Haye's best win at HW is over a Valuev who struggled in a robbery over 46 year old Holyfield

[BrometheusBob.]

I think if he had started slow people wouldn't really care all that much. I think once you start fighting top tier opposition OR you stop getting really hyped is when people give you real schit for fighting average opponents. At least imo.

That being said I think Wilder could have done it with much fewer fights. The reality was that they took time to develop they knew they needed, and it backfired in the sense that Wilder did not really develop much as a boxer in that time.

In hindsight, Wilder's style and skillset would have been better suited for giving it a go for all the belts sooner in his career. He is relying largely on athleticism, power, and grit which are things that can taper off as you age (especially the first). Oh well.

[The Big Dunn]

Salido cheated coming in overweight for the fight and fighting like a dirty mofo in there. It was Lomachenkos first ever 12 round fight in his 2nd fight against a former world champ and veteran like salido. How the hell is that a cherry pick...? And he still only lost a split decision after almost finishing salido in the 12th

Now move on to wilder.. when has he ever faced that kinda risk

Loma was the favorite. By a good bit too. Yes, he lost not because Salido was better, but because he did what everyone says do to elite boxers like Floyd, pernell and Loma-make it an ugly, dirty brawl. he wasn't prepared for that.

I don't think it fair to be revisionists and pretend this was seen as a 50/50 fight with a lot of risk, especially given what we know bout Arum and his matchmakers.

Ortiz is the closest opponent to Salido and IMO he isn't on the same level of a Salido.

[chrisJS]

Look at the **** Lomachenko gets from Wilder fans for his competition. Had Wilder been matched from his debut the way Loma has he'd be something like 1-11.