Who was more overrated--Ali or Floyd?

[GhostofDempsey]

Good question, a tough question. Kinda hard to explain it on paper but I'll give a shot.

Muhammad Ali is the most overrated boxer in the history of the sport bar none, he circumvented the rules of boxing by clinching/holding/hugging his opponents to death and he was never warned, penalized or disqualified for any of the bear hugging he did in the ring. Watch any of his fights, all he does is lay on the ropes, grabs and holds his opponents and without any fouls handed to him for all the wrestling he did in the ring. He was also the progenitor of the "getting on the bicycle" term, running away and not fighting the opponent.

In short, he was a clincher and a runner with a big mouth who was never punished for the cheating he did in the ring.

Floyd emulated Ali's clownish, safety-first tactics and took it a step further. Exaggerated shoulder roll, duck below opponent's belt line, hold/clinch then run around the ring, rope-a-dope, clinch and hold like hell. Rinse and repeat as the referees turned a blind eye, hell the refs protected both of them.

They're both similar in their clownish, safety first styles but in the end Mayweather is better than Ali. Floyd was the smarter fighter (Ali ended up with Parkinson's and Floyd's health is intact) and the better boxer overall despite both of them being cheaters.

Thank you for a smart analysis of the two.

[KingHippo]

really? is ricky hatton and corrales even in the hall of fame...?

Urm, hard to make the hall of fame without a ballot:

https://www.badlefthook.com/2017/10/7/16442200/klitschko-morales-hatton-wright-and-calderon-join-boxing-hall-of-fame-ballot

[huh?]

This OP has some technical flaws in his own game. The disparaging nature of his very "question" reveals his true intention, which is to undermine the achievements of others. His argument is predicated on the presumption that either or both fighters in question are overrated to begin with, and is therefore inherently illogical. He's dry snitched himself with ineffective aggression and poor ring generalship. TKO.

[BoxingTech718]

Floyd, Ali had fought better competition.

[GhostofDempsey]

This OP has some technical flaws in his own game. The disparaging nature of his very "question" reveals his true intention, which is to undermine the achievements of others. His argument is predicated on the presumption that either or both fighters in question are overrated to begin with, and is therefore inherently illogical. He's dry snitched himself with ineffective aggression and poor ring generalship. TKO.

Like I stated in an earlier post, each of them were self-proclaimed greatest or best. They in turn bring this sort of speculation upon themselves. Louis, Robinson, Leonard, Lewis, never touted themselves the as GOAT, hence they aren't included in the discussion.

Overrated is a term that speaks to their accolades or these titles that fans often identify them with "The Greatest" or "TBE". If you call yourself the best, then be prepare to back it up and live up to that moniker. Otherwise, threads such as this one is fair game. I'm asking who is more overrated, because clearly neither of them is the greatest fighter of all time. Unless of course you think they are, then by all means discuss.

[4truth]

Floyd...Ali was ****ing amazing. I guess if you are picking Ali to beat every heavyweight whoever lived, you are overrating him but nobody beats everybody. Ali moved more like a middle or even welterweight than a heavyweight and his handspeed and accuracy were second to none.


Floyd will always be the hypothetical king of the coulda, woulda, shoulda.

[huh?]

And still more unqualified assumptions, "Clearly". Fair game? Yes. Cogent? No.

[GhostofDempsey]

And still more unqualified assumptions, "Clearly". Fair game? Yes. Cogent? No.

In other words you have absolutely nothing. Fail.

[GoldenGloveLove]

I thought this site was for boxing fans? All u people do all day is try to discredit boxers gee wiz

Yeah, I've noticed that. Every time I have ever logged in here. Ever.

[Bjl12]

He only dared to be elite, but not a Great. He just dared to be elite long enough to be a Great, but never intentionally dared to be Great. Moreover he never fought a great fighter in his prime. 50-0, but rather hollow.

Facts about age
- It's ring age that matters, not 'age'. Pipino Cuevas HOF was finished by 24 years old, Wilfried Benitez also in his 20's, Morales approaching 30. Hopkins was at the elite level in his 40's.
Defensive styles and higher weight classes add to longevity.

Mayweather didn't rise up the weight classes in order to fight greats.
Floyd RETIRES when he doesn't want to fight stylistic threats. He was surrounded by prime Pacquiao, prime Williams, prime Margarito and prime Cotto during 2007-2009 but fought none of them.

Stopped reading here.

PRIME Margarito had a 1-fight "prime". Stops Cotto then gets stopped by Mosley in the very next fight...wow. What a prime.

Prime PWill - every fight he didn't get was arguably a duck, but he looked like trash against Collazo who is a fraction of the boxer Floyd was.

Prime Manny was:

Afraid of needles
Weakened by giving blood
Floyd is not the commissioner
I need a cutoff date

So what are we really talking about then? Every fighter Floyd fought, aside from JMM, was larger than him on fight night (including your beloved Pacman). Floyd was the smaller fighter in almost every single one of his fights.

He had "off" nights against stylistic nightmares in Maidana/JLC during their first fights. They both do specifically what bothers him - "rough house tactics".

No version of Margarito was a "rough house" fighter. Margarito was closer in style to Carlos Baldomir. Plodding, come-forward, face first, with zero defense or boxing. Just ask Shane Mosley how ordinary Margarito was.

Prime Cotto? That fight didn't happen because of Arum. Cotto was ringside for the Sharmba Mitchell fight and there's a quote of Arum saying "Cotto wasn't ready". Sharmba Mitchell also used Miguel's Uncle as trainer...so the idea was if Floyd struggled Miguel would call him out. He didn't. Cotto moved on.

Floyd is the best fighter since 2000. It's not up for debate. He is the greatest fighter since then. I'm not speaking on opinion. It's fact.

He would not have done well against the Fab 4, but they would all have been fun fights. SRL stops him. Hearns is the only one I think Floyd could've maybe beaten since Tommy loved to "fight" instead of box. Duran was too similar to JLC and Maidana in terms of "rough house" tactics to not cause Floyd all sorts of trouble. Hagler was just too big and strong.

When you hear 25 world champions, are you aware that there are four ‘world champions’ per weight division? Are you aware that boxers can unjustifiably earn a world title against an overmatched opponent without having to fight those who are genuinely seen as THE best? These are belt holders, not ultimate undisputed world champions.

Despite you being an absolute idiot about pretty much everything - this is SPOT on. All these "championship fights" are complete BS.

Floyd's legitimately beat like 8-10 good fighters, but these accolades are so watered down. It's honestly sad.

Floyd is still likely a Top 25 or Top 30 fighter ever. He ranks AHEAD of Manny without question. He is very far removed from TBE though lmfao...and I'm a Floyd fan