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For the sake of this thread, by overrated I do not mean they were not ATGs, or highly skilled fighters. Had to put that caveat out there for the fans who get triggered by anything negative implied towards either man.
By overrated, I mean who got more undeserved credit/press for being "The Greatest" or "The Best Ever"?
Ali was big and fast for a HW, which gave him a tremendous advantage over most of his opponents. He was a media sensation and with the backing of the media, the mob and Islam got favorable decisions (Doug Jones, Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, Chuvalo II, Shavers), got a fight fixed in his favor (At least one but IMO both Liston fights), got wins over a lot of much smaller opponents such as Quarry, Foster, a washed up Patterson 2X, old Archie Moore, Blin, Chuvalo, Bonavena, Coopman, Warner and others).
He did a lot of things wrong in the ring such as leaning back from punches, dropping his hands too low, especially when throwing uppercuts, not going to the body, taking a lot of punches. He was also very quick on his feet and had impressive hand speed for a big man. Had one of the best chins in boxing.
He was brash, eloquent, charismatic, charming and resurrected boxing during a time when it's popularity had waned with the general public. He was what boxing needed at the time and helped to breath life back into the sport.
At every opportunity he shouted that he was The Greatest into the microphone and with the help of Howard Cosell he was able to make that self-appointed moniker stick in the minds of the general public and casual fanbase.
Mayweather is a great defensive boxer. However, he was never truly tested by an elite fighter at their best or in their prime. It is difficult to measure a man's greatness unless he has tested himself against other greats at their best.
He has been accused to ducking several fighters over the course of his career such as Stevie Johnston a slick southpaw, Casamayor, Freitas, prime Mosley at 135, Paul Williams, Winky Wright who he called out and then ducked when his bluff was called, prime Pac who he admits he "marinated" the fight for five years which is just another way to say he ducked and waited him out until he lost a step. Prime Cotto, Margarito, Khan and Martinez at 154 can be added to the list.
Towards the end he chose the likes of Ortiz, Guerrero, and Berto rather than D. Garcia, Thurman or Porter.
He prefers to win by safe decisions, often throwing about 35 punches per round. For the second half of his career he chose to use a lot of lateral movement, clinching, and questionable tactics such as forearms, elbows and pushing opponents heads down. But he also has impressive hand speed, accuracy, ring IQ, defense and stamina. An excellent chin too.
He got questionable decisions against Castillo I, Oscar, and Maidana I. Many of his detractors feel he lost to Pacquiao, however I would argue neither man did a whole lot to win that fight and it will go down as the biggest flop of all time in terms of hype and entertainment value.
He is the richest athlete in the world and has earned more than any other fighter in history. Retired "undefeated" and that is his claim to greatness.
So who was more overrated by fans and the media? Who got more credit than they truly deserved? Who will be remembered as the greater of the two?
By overrated, I mean who got more undeserved credit/press for being "The Greatest" or "The Best Ever"?
Ali was big and fast for a HW, which gave him a tremendous advantage over most of his opponents. He was a media sensation and with the backing of the media, the mob and Islam got favorable decisions (Doug Jones, Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, Chuvalo II, Shavers), got a fight fixed in his favor (At least one but IMO both Liston fights), got wins over a lot of much smaller opponents such as Quarry, Foster, a washed up Patterson 2X, old Archie Moore, Blin, Chuvalo, Bonavena, Coopman, Warner and others).
He did a lot of things wrong in the ring such as leaning back from punches, dropping his hands too low, especially when throwing uppercuts, not going to the body, taking a lot of punches. He was also very quick on his feet and had impressive hand speed for a big man. Had one of the best chins in boxing.
He was brash, eloquent, charismatic, charming and resurrected boxing during a time when it's popularity had waned with the general public. He was what boxing needed at the time and helped to breath life back into the sport.
At every opportunity he shouted that he was The Greatest into the microphone and with the help of Howard Cosell he was able to make that self-appointed moniker stick in the minds of the general public and casual fanbase.
Mayweather is a great defensive boxer. However, he was never truly tested by an elite fighter at their best or in their prime. It is difficult to measure a man's greatness unless he has tested himself against other greats at their best.
He has been accused to ducking several fighters over the course of his career such as Stevie Johnston a slick southpaw, Casamayor, Freitas, prime Mosley at 135, Paul Williams, Winky Wright who he called out and then ducked when his bluff was called, prime Pac who he admits he "marinated" the fight for five years which is just another way to say he ducked and waited him out until he lost a step. Prime Cotto, Margarito, Khan and Martinez at 154 can be added to the list.
Towards the end he chose the likes of Ortiz, Guerrero, and Berto rather than D. Garcia, Thurman or Porter.
He prefers to win by safe decisions, often throwing about 35 punches per round. For the second half of his career he chose to use a lot of lateral movement, clinching, and questionable tactics such as forearms, elbows and pushing opponents heads down. But he also has impressive hand speed, accuracy, ring IQ, defense and stamina. An excellent chin too.
He got questionable decisions against Castillo I, Oscar, and Maidana I. Many of his detractors feel he lost to Pacquiao, however I would argue neither man did a whole lot to win that fight and it will go down as the biggest flop of all time in terms of hype and entertainment value.
He is the richest athlete in the world and has earned more than any other fighter in history. Retired "undefeated" and that is his claim to greatness.
So who was more overrated by fans and the media? Who got more credit than they truly deserved? Who will be remembered as the greater of the two?
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