Who was more overrated--Ali or Floyd?

[GhostofDempsey]

Ali was not overrated Floyd definitely is. Floyd Claims to be "TBE" but never fought a great fighter in his prime. Even at Ali's best he himself let alone the boxing press didn't think he was the greatest:



Yet Ali has a far better claim to be TBE since he did fight a great in his prime and has a resume that destroys Floyd's. Floyd couldn't carry Ali's jockstrap.

Totally ******ed poll which demonstrates YDKSAB.

It's a legit poll since each fighter stood up and claimed to be the best. Floyd even went so far as to tear apart Ali and Robinson's record.

When you stick your head out above the crowd, people are going to take notice. If they make bold claims then they must be prepared for scrutiny. Fair play.

[KingHippo]

goes to show you how low the standards have slipped

Not really. Just shows the haters' confirmation bias.

[mlac]

If you're a modern-day boxrec hipster with your TBE hat, regular listener of da boxing voice, then obviously you'll scream floyd was the best till the cows come home, but the obvious answer is Ali is more underrated imo, he fought everyone. floyd represents the modern cherry-picker businessman.

[Kuyukut]

"Check Boxrec ATG List"

as usual boxrec overrating Fraud jr at # 42.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Joe Louis
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore

11. Benny Leonard
12. Ray Leonard
13. Pernell Whitaker
14. Bob Fitzsimmons
15. Joe Gans
16. Carlos Monzon
17. Barney Ross
18. Jack Johnson
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Jimmy Wilde

21. Mickey Walker
22. Sandy Saddler
23. Manny Pacquiao
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Alexis Arguello
26. Rocky Marciano
27. Gene Tunney
28. Roy Jones Jr
29. Lennox Lewis
30. Evander Holyfield

31. Bernard Hopkins
32. Barbados Joe Walcott
33. Eder Jofre
34. Tony Canzoneri
35. Emile Griffith
36. Jack Dempsey
37. Charley Burley
38. Kid Gavilan
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ike Williams


41. Larry Holmes
42. Floyd Mayweather Jr
43. Thomas Hearns
44. Jimmy McLarnin
45. Stanley Ketchel

[djtmal]

Not really. Just shows the haters' confirmation bias.

really? is ricky hatton and corrales even in the hall of fame...?

[GhostofDempsey]

as usual boxrec overrating Fraud jr at # 42.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Joe Louis
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore

11. Benny Leonard
12. Ray Leonard
13. Pernell Whitaker
14. Bob Fitzsimmons
15. Joe Gans
16. Carlos Monzon
17. Barney Ross
18. Jack Johnson
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Jimmy Wilde

21. Mickey Walker
22. Sandy Saddler
23. Manny Pacquiao
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Alexis Arguello
26. Rocky Marciano
27. Gene Tunney
28. Roy Jones Jr
29. Lennox Lewis
30. Evander Holyfield

31. Bernard Hopkins
32. Barbados Joe Walcott
33. Eder Jofre
34. Tony Canzoneri
35. Emile Griffith
36. Jack Dempsey
37. Charley Burley
38. Kid Gavilan
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ike Williams


41. Larry Holmes
42. Floyd Mayweather Jr
43. Thomas Hearns
44. Jimmy McLarnin
45. Stanley Ketchel

Crazy list altogether. Hopkins has no business on there. Monzon should be much lower. I'd put Ike Williams and Salvador Sanchez higher. Pac is right around where he should be.

[GhostofDempsey]

Thus far I see 14 votes for Ali, but not one informative post to discuss why they voted that way. To be expected when I consider who cast the votes.

[Illmatic94]

Mayweather is a great defensive boxer. However, he was never truly tested by an elite fighter at their best or in their prime. It is difficult to measure a man's greatness unless he has tested himself against other greats at their best.

He has been accused to ducking several fighters over the course of his career such as Stevie Johnston a slick southpaw, Casamayor, Freitas, prime Mosley at 135, Paul Williams, Winky Wright who he called out and then ducked when his bluff was called, prime Pac who he admits he "marinated" the fight for five years which is just another way to say he ducked and waited him out until he lost a step. Prime Cotto, Margarito, Khan and Martinez at 154 can be added to the list.

Towards the end he chose the likes of Ortiz, Guerrero, and Berto rather than D. Garcia, Thurman or Porter.

He prefers to win by safe decisions, often throwing about 35 punches per round. For the second half of his career he chose to use a lot of lateral movement, clinching, and questionable tactics such as forearms, elbows and pushing opponents heads down. But he also has impressive hand speed, accuracy, ring IQ, defense and stamina. An excellent chin too.

He got questionable decisions against Castillo I, Oscar, and Maidana I. Many of his detractors feel he lost to Pacquiao, however I would argue neither man did a whole lot to win that fight and it will go down as the biggest flop of all time in terms of hype and entertainment value.

He is the richest athlete in the world and has earned more than any other fighter in history. Retired "undefeated" and that is his claim to greatness.

So who was more overrated by fans and the media? Who got more credit than they truly deserved? Who will be remembered as the greater of the two?

Stevie Johnston? first time hearing that. Ever. Prime Mosley? you mean the guy that said his tooth was hurting too much when asked if he wanted to fight Floyd around 05-06? and the Winky negotiations fell apart because Winky's promoter Shaw insisted on 50-50 split. Floyd wanted 55-45 with a rehydration limit. but this was like July 2005, Floyd was a JWW and Winky was a MW. at the time I remember most people never took the talks serious.

Pacquiao? you can write a book on the reasons that fight didn't happen but to just outright blame Floyd is silly. the person who set the very first roadblock was Manny requesting cutoff dates and Roach himself accepts blame for the fight not taking place in 2010.

Prime Cotto? when did this happen. and when did Cotto stop being "prime"? this prime sht is tossed around too loosely with no explanation. you're probably one of those who think Floyd was always prime, even at age 38.

"he prefers to win safe decisions". and that is a negative because.....

Oscar's win was questionable? he beat a JMW who stacked the deck against him pretty handily.

anybody who says he lost to Pacquiao is not qualified to talk boxing. giving Manny more than two rounds is being generous. that was easily Floyd's easiest victory in twenty years. reduced Pacquiao to a sparring partner. all twelve rounds in one gear. it's only considered a flop because Floyd won be real.

and why is being undefeated only degraded when it comes to Floyd? when people bring up Marciano what do they say? and Marciano would've been dog **** in today's era whereas Floyd would've been elite in any era.

he ducked Khan? you exposing yourself left and right. when Khan was being mentioned as an opponent he was coming off struggling vs Diaz and everybody accused Floyd of cherry picking. Maidana was red hot and had Floyd picked Khan you would've accused him of ducking Maidana instead.

[GhostofDempsey]

Stevie Johnston? first time hearing that. Ever. Prime Mosley? you mean the guy that said his tooth was hurting too much when asked if he wanted to fight Floyd around 05-06? and the Winky negotiations fell apart because Winky's promoter Shaw insisted on 50-50 split. Floyd wanted 55-45 with a rehydration limit. but this was like July 2005, Floyd was a JWW and Winky was a MW. at the time I remember most people never took the talks serious.

Pacquiao? you can write a book on the reasons that fight didn't happen but to just outright blame Floyd is silly. the person who set the very first roadblock was Manny requesting cutoff dates and Roach himself accepts blame for the fight not taking place in 2010.

Prime Cotto? when did this happen. and when did Cotto stop being "prime"? this prime sht is tossed around too loosely with no explanation. you're probably one of those who think Floyd was always prime, even at age 38.

"he prefers to win safe decisions". and that is a negative because.....

Oscar's win was questionable? he beat a JMW who stacked the deck against him pretty handily.

anybody who says he lost to Pacquiao is not qualified to talk boxing. giving Manny more than two rounds is being generous. that was easily Floyd's easiest victory in twenty years. reduced Pacquiao to a sparring partner. all twelve rounds in one gear. it's only considered a flop because Floyd won be real.

and why is being undefeated only degraded when it comes to Floyd? when people bring up Marciano what do they say? and Marciano would've been dog **** in today's era whereas Floyd would've been elite in any era.

he ducked Khan? you exposing yourself left and right. when Khan was being mentioned as an opponent he was coming off struggling vs Diaz and everybody accused Floyd of cherry picking. Maidana was red hot and had Floyd picked Khan you would've accused him of ducking Maidana instead.

Typical casual replies. Stevie Johnston was an up and coming prospect around the same time as Floyd, good Southpaw, Floyd wanted no part of it. It is documented in interviews that Shane was calling out Floyd since 135. That idiotic toothache excuse you Floyd huggers like to latch onto was Mosley asking for a one month extension for a loose tooth that needed to heal. One month, and Floyd said nope.

Floyd "retired" rather than give Oscar a rematch or face a prime Cotto, Pac, Margarito, or Paul Williams. Came back to face a urine-drinking Marquez who came up over two weight classes for a catch weight that Floyd didn't even make. Floyd refused to be weighed on day of fight.

Manny agreed to drug testing and then Floyd just kept moving the goal post for the next five years. I can list ten excuses Floyd used to duck him and wait him out. He even admits that he "marinated" the fight for five years and insists on being given credit for being the smart one to prolong that fight.

He asked his fans to vote for his next opponent while only giving them Maidana and Khan as choices. They voted for Khan on his website and he chose Maidana instead. Maidana was Khan's leftovers, and Maidana should still have been given the win in that first fight. Floyd the diva was ready to cancel the fight if he didnt' change his gloves. LOL.

[HandsofIron]

Good question, a tough question. Kinda hard to explain it on paper but I'll give a shot.

Muhammad Ali is the most overrated boxer in the history of the sport bar none, he circumvented the rules of boxing by clinching/holding/hugging his opponents to death and he was never warned, penalized or disqualified for any of the bear hugging he did in the ring. Watch any of his fights, all he does is lay on the ropes, grabs and holds his opponents and without any fouls handed to him for all the wrestling he did in the ring. He was also the progenitor of the "getting on the bicycle" term, running away and not fighting the opponent.

In short, he was a clincher and a runner with a big mouth who was never punished for the cheating he did in the ring.

Floyd emulated Ali's clownish, safety-first tactics and took it a step further. Exaggerated shoulder roll, duck below opponent's belt line, hold/clinch then run around the ring, rope-a-dope, clinch and hold like hell. Rinse and repeat as the referees turned a blind eye, hell the refs protected both of them.

They're both similar in their clownish, safety first styles but in the end Mayweather is better than Ali. Floyd was the smarter fighter (Ali ended up with Parkinson's and Floyd's health is intact) and the better boxer overall despite both of them being cheaters.