Comments Thread For: Prograis-Postol to Take Place 3/9 in Deadwood, South Dakota

[mrpain81]

[BigStomps]

Respect your opinion and you may be right, but I personally believe it's inevitable that HBO gives up on boxing as their boxing franchise continues to crumble, unless they land UFC and UFC insists on being given boxing dates as part of the deal.

Right now, HBO boxing has two fighters anybody cares about. Canelo & GGG. Their fights are almost always on PPV. But they can't fight forever and HBO has shown no ability to develop any stars in recent years other than GGG, and even he really struggles as the A-side on PPV.

So at some point HBO has to ask themselves, why are they even in the boxing business? Showtime isn't their primary competitor anymore. It's Netflix. Every dollar HBO spends on boxing is a dollar that is practically worthless a week later. Every dollar HBO spends on original programming stays in their archive in perpetuity.

That is why they don't want to spend $100 million a year on boxing anymore. Because after ten years, that's a billion dollars that could have been spent on original programming that lives on forever and helps them in their fight against Netflix to create the best archive of content.

Also, HBO sells themselves as the most prestigious brand in entertainment. Right now, they are a very distant third in the boxing business and a distant fourth in the fight business once you add in UFC. It's a black eye on their brand and as Haymon's power continues to grow, and as Arum rebounds with ESPN, it's eventually going to get to the point where HBO is going to be a bunch of 100 pound Asian fighters because those are the only world champions they can get their hands on.

I can tell you for a fact that if HBO/TNT/TRU land UFC, they are willing to ditch boxing in a heartbeat other than Canelo PPVs. Doesn't mean it will come to that, but it could.

HBO's future, PBC's future on FOX, so much depends on where UFC lands and the domino effect that follows.

Well I won't dispute anything of what you said. You seem to know about how boxing works as far as the financial standpoint of it. Let me ask you this....
Do you think showtime will keep spending money like crazy in fights given their low ratings in boxing?
Showtime has been putting on better fights then HBO but their ratings are pretty much even with HBO'S ratings and I'm sure their spending allot more money than HBO on fights...

[N/A]

Do you think showtime will keep spending money like crazy in fights given their low ratings in boxing?

Yes, because the ratings are very misleading. Fans can see the Nielsen numbers when they're reported online, but they can't see the numbers Showtime sees. HBO has taken extreme measures to protect the Nielsen numbers the public gets their hands on while Showtime has made a lot of moves that artificially lower the Nielsen numbers.

I'll give you a few examples. If you watch fights on HBO GO or Showtime Anytime, whether that's on your phone, computer, tablet, or on a smart TV or TV connected to a gaming console, roku, apple TV, etc, you are not counted by Nielsen.

So let's look how HBO & Showtime treat their apps, keeping in mind that anybody watching on the app won't be counted in the publicly released number:

#1 - Showtime let's their subscribers watch live on the app. Whether you're out of town, on a trip, at a party, prefer to not pay extra to put a cable or satellite box in every room, Showtime makes it as easy as possible to watch their fights even if it hurts the Nielsen number. HBO on the other hand refuses to allow you to watch live on HBO GO. They want to force you to watch live on TV to protect the Nielsen number.

#2 - Showtime starts replaying their fights the same night as the event. If you miss the fight live or forget to record it, you can find a replay later that night, even though it won't be counted by Nielsen. HBO wants their replay to be as inconvenient as possible to force you to watch live, so they air the replay at 9am the next day.

#3 - Showtime makes their fights available on demand very quickly, sometimes as soon as the same night or the next morning. Even though it decreases the need to watch live. HBO on the other hand makes you wait several days before the fights are available on demand. Again, to make anything other than the live airing as inconvenient as possible.

#4 - Showtime makes the ENTIRE EVENT available on demand. Not only does HBO make you wait several days, but they only upload the fight itself. Not the entire show. Again, to make anything other than the live airing as undesirable as possible.

Those are just a few examples of things HBO has done to artificially prop up their Nielsen number while Showtime couldn't care less and makes the fights as easy to watch as possible for their subscribers, even if it damages the Nielsen number.

Showtime isn't selling ads. They're selling subscriptions. They really don't care how you watch as long as you watch. The only reason to obsess over the Nielsen number is for PR reasons. HBO boxing brass know they're hanging on by a thread and need to do everything they can to keep up appearances.

Showtime boxing brass on the other hand know they have the full backing of the parent company, don't have to worry as much about PR, and just have to worry about delivering good fights for their subscribers.

If you look at Showtime's boxing ratings falling off a cliff, it corresponds perfectly with Showtime Anytime adding a live feed, Showtime Anytime beginning to upload the entire event for VOD, beginning to upload the event very quickly instead of the several days HBO still makes you wait, etc.

So when people wonder why SHO is so committed to boxing, it's because they're making judgments based on the real numbers and they don't care about keeping up appearances.

[jas]

Postol went into survival mode vs crawford. Shows mental weakness

Prograis probably never fought someone with height and reach of postol and someone at that level so not an easy fight to predict but i would go for prograis based on hes probably the hungrier fighter

[BigStomps]

Yes, because the ratings are very misleading. Fans can see the Nielsen numbers when they're reported online, but they can't see the numbers Showtime sees. HBO has taken extreme measures to protect the Nielsen numbers the public gets their hands on while Showtime has made a lot of moves that artificially lower the Nielsen numbers.

I'll give you a few examples. If you watch fights on HBO GO or Showtime Anytime, whether that's on your phone, computer, tablet, or on a smart TV or TV connected to a gaming console, roku, apple TV, etc, you are not counted by Nielsen.

So let's look how HBO & Showtime treat their apps, keeping in mind that anybody watching on the app won't be counted in the publicly released number:

#1 - Showtime let's their subscribers watch live on the app. Whether you're out of town, on a trip, at a party, prefer to not pay extra to put a cable or satellite box in every room, Showtime makes it as easy as possible to watch their fights even if it hurts the Nielsen number. HBO on the other hand refuses to allow you to watch live on HBO GO. They want to force you to watch live on TV to protect the Nielsen number.

#2 - Showtime starts replaying their fights the same night as the event. If you miss the fight live or forget to record it, you can find a replay later that night, even though it won't be counted by Nielsen. HBO wants their replay to be as inconvenient as possible to force you to watch live, so they air the replay at 9am the next day.

#3 - Showtime makes their fights available on demand very quickly, sometimes as soon as the same night or the next morning. Even though it decreases the need to watch live. HBO on the other hand makes you wait several days before the fights are available on demand. Again, to make anything other than the live airing as inconvenient as possible.

#4 - Showtime makes the ENTIRE EVENT available on demand. Not only does HBO make you wait several days, but they only upload the fight itself. Not the entire show. Again, to make anything other than the live airing as undesirable as possible.

Those are just a few examples of things HBO has done to artificially prop up their Nielsen number while Showtime couldn't care less and makes the fights as easy to watch as possible for their subscribers, even if it damages the Nielsen number.

Showtime isn't selling ads. They're selling subscriptions. They really don't care how you watch as long as you watch. The only reason to obsess over the Nielsen number is for PR reasons. HBO boxing brass know they're hanging on by a thread and need to do everything they can to keep up appearances.

Showtime boxing brass on the other hand know they have the full backing of the parent company, don't have to worry as much about PR, and just have to worry about delivering good fights for their subscribers.

If you look at Showtime's boxing ratings falling off a cliff, it corresponds perfectly with Showtime Anytime adding a live feed, Showtime Anytime beginning to upload the entire event for VOD, beginning to upload the event very quickly instead of the several days HBO still makes you wait, etc.

So when people wonder why SHO is so committed to boxing, it's because they're making judgments based on the real numbers and they don't care about keeping up appearances.

Okay I didn't know any of that.
Well I hope Showtime keeps going strong like they have been. And I hope HBO keeps putting on fights too.
I just love boxing and I'm glad we have three channels to watch boxing on instead of just two. I was surprised when ESPN entered the boxing scene but I gotta say they've been putting on some great fights too.
I hope it stays that way

[TheClap]

Where is this ****ing clown WBC, WBA, IBF??
What the **** is wrong with this pix?? Why the **** is the WBC creating two belts again in the same division?? Instead of having a mini tournament and having the winners of each fight go at it for the title, they sanction both fights as WBC title fights and then they'll have to fight again for the real WBC title again..... Just a way for the WBC to get two extra sanctioning fees from these guys...... Tell me that's not bullshet??? That's why I always say, **** the WBC!

Ey Big Stompi my cuck sucking homie, howsit hanging guy? I see you still pissed off at your small nuts

[Beercules]

Deadwood, South Dakota.



Can't make it up

[N/A]

Well I hope Showtime keeps going strong like they have been. And I hope HBO keeps putting on fights too.

I just love boxing and I'm glad we have three channels to watch boxing on instead of just two.

I totally understand that perspective, but I personally would prefer as much consolidation as possible.

If you think back to when HBO absolutely dominated boxing, it was great for fans that could afford an HBO subscription because if there was a big fight, HBO could usually make it happen. They were the only place to go for big money and it meant that if there was a logical fight the public wanted to see, there was a pretty good chance HBO could make it.

The problem now though with three separate worlds is that the chances of a logical fight the public wants to see never happening is higher than ever. SHO/FOX, ESPN and HBO all jockeying for position. Haymon essentially exclusive to SHO/FOX. Arum essentially exclusive to ESPN. Golden Boy, K2 and Main Events essentially exclusive to HBO.

You split the talent three ways instead of two and you just end up frustrating the fans. Thurman and Spence very unlikely to fight Crawford. Canelo and GGG very unlikely to fight Charlo. HBO trying to sign Joshua so they can block the AJ-Wilder fight. The list goes on.

Take HBO out of the industry, split their fighters between Haymon and Arum and even though there would still be fights that can't happen, you'd have way more fights that could.

With HBO losing all of Haymon's guys AND all of Arum's guys, the best thing for the fans is for HBO to quit the boxing business so we can go back to two universes.

[BigStomps]

Ey Big Stompi my cuck sucking homie, howsit hanging guy? I see you still pissed off at your small nuts

I got your homie hanging *******! All 9 inches of him.
Now get on your knees and French kiss your homie once again punk!

[BigStomps]

I totally understand that perspective, but I personally would prefer as much consolidation as possible.

If you think back to when HBO absolutely dominated boxing, it was great for fans that could afford an HBO subscription because if there was a big fight, HBO could usually make it happen. They were the only place to go for big money and it meant that if there was a logical fight the public wanted to see, there was a pretty good chance HBO could make it.

The problem now though with three separate worlds is that the chances of a logical fight the public wants to see never happening is higher than ever. SHO/FOX, ESPN and HBO all jockeying for position. Haymon essentially exclusive to SHO/FOX. Arum essentially exclusive to ESPN. Golden Boy, K2 and Main Events essentially exclusive to HBO.

You split the talent three ways instead of two and you just end up frustrating the fans. Thurman and Spence very unlikely to fight Crawford. Canelo and GGG very unlikely to fight Charlo. HBO trying to sign Joshua so they can block the AJ-Wilder fight. The list goes on.

Take HBO out of the industry, split their fighters between Haymon and Arum and even though there would still be fights that can't happen, you'd have way more fights that could.

With HBO losing all of Haymon's guys AND all of Arum's guys, the best thing for the fans is for HBO to quit the boxing business so we can go back to two universes.

I get what your saying but if that was to happen then there would be even less dates to go around..
Take Al Haymon and Showtime for example.. As deep and great a stable as Haymon has at welterweight he hasn't been able to capitalize on it.
As soon as he left Golden Boy promotions he should of started an 8 men tournament at welterweight.
Spence, Thurman, Porter, Garcia, Berto, Alexander, Khan, and Guerrero with Ortiz and Collazo as substitutes in case anyone gets hurt.
Damn that would of really took PBC to the top. But instead he has fighters that fight only once a year, a bunch of mismatches, Fighters on his own stable that are avoiding each other, and other fighters not fighting for lack of dates.
As it stands it's a lose-lose situation for all the fans. These damn promoters all have big egos and they all trying to take each other out of business.
So I don't think eliminating HBO would solve anything cause then you would have more fighters fighting only once a year and there would still be plenty of mismatches cause promoters refuse to work with each other.
I think that's the biggest issue in boxing.
Promotes egos, not the networks.