Be honest: Who picked Walters over Lomachenko?

[The Big Dunn]

Because Lomachenko was the reigning Featherweight champion. He had just won his title in the summer of 2014 and moved to 130 in the summer of 2016 (after only six fights I'm sure he could still make 126) after being unable to secure fights with Walters and Rigondeaux and other champions at 126. Walters could have easily fought him in the year prior but turned down what would have been by far a career high payday. He turned down the June 2016 offer so he could have avoided the ring rust.

He turned down Walters after he got stripped in June 2015 when he came in over but beat Marriaga. Then Walters had to face Sosa in Dec 2015, got the BS MD, and Loma still didn't want to fight at 130. Rigo was still at 118 at this time.

Walters according to Arum turned down the largest ever payday. As we know, TR fighters that do this are really turning down the "extras" in the "fine print" and not the money, although asking for $1 mil was a lot IMO.

In the end Loma won. He won decisively and fairly. I picked Walters and was wrong.

it's clear Arum worked things to the advantage of Loma, who had bigger upside IMO, rather than Walters. Kind of the same thing he did with Manny and Cotto and has done other times.

I notice you didn't explain why you didn't mention Walters being out for a year.

[chrisJS]

He turned down Walters after he got stripped in June 2015 when he came in over but beat Marriaga. Then Walters had to face Sosa in Dec 2015, got the BS MD, and Loma still didn't want to fight at 130. Rigo was still at 118 at this time.

Walters according to Arum turned down the largest ever payday. As we know, TR fighters that do this are really turning down the "extras" in the "fine print" and not the money, although asking for $1 mil was a lot IMO.

In the end Loma won. He won decisively and fairly. I picked Walters and was wrong.

it's clear Arum worked things to the advantage of Loma, who had bigger upside IMO, rather than Walters. Kind of the same thing he did with Manny and Cotto and has done other times.

I notice you didn't explain why you didn't mention Walters being out for a year.

Because he was the defending Featherweight champion of the World. No rush to go to 130 when you are trying to secure unification bouts and a Rigo fight. Rigo was at 122, NOT 118 FYI.

I think it's very cynical to suggest Arum always works that way to sabotage multiple guys just for one guy. Sure he plays favorites, but when the fact is Lomachenko had options and two of those options were Rigo at 126 after Rigo said he wanted to fight him (and then backed out) and unification bouts. He moved up because he couldn't secure those bouts. Walters rejected the fight for June of 2016. The rust is on him and it's clear that was soon as Loma was in the same division again he went straight for Walters.

Lomachenko didn't talk 130 until the summer of 2016. He was making 126 no problem. His words were "Moved to 130 because none of the champs at 126 wanted to face him". It's what seperates him from Rigo for example asking the entire Boxing universe to move down to his division. Of course, his tune changed when he realized he can't get good TV dates or money so took the payday next week.

[Redd Foxx]

How many of you predicted that Walters would be totally ill-prepared and end up not fighting for more than a year after, and may never fight again?

I'm all for bragging rights over correct predictions but this self-masturbatory festival is so corny. Let's not act like it wasn't expected to be a close fight. Of course many were picking Walters, because Loma LOST TO SALIDO. There was nothing ****** about picking Walters, nothing bold about picking Loma.

For the record, I was on the fence and went back and forth. I felt Loma would win but also thought Walters had the tools to get the W, if he pulled it all together. I didn't have a dog in this fight. Few predicted that Walters would be in shyt condition and possibly even be done as a boxer. Anyone who did gets true bragging rights.

[The Big Dunn]

Because he was the defending Featherweight champion of the World. No rush to go to 130 when you are trying to secure unification bouts and a Rigo fight. Rigo was at 122, NOT 118 FYI.

I think it's very cynical to suggest Arum always works that way to sabotage multiple guys just for one guy. Sure he plays favorites, but when the fact is Lomachenko had options and two of those options were Rigo at 126 after Rigo said he wanted to fight him (and then backed out) and unification bouts. He moved up because he couldn't secure those bouts. Walters rejected the fight for June of 2016. The rust is on him and it's clear that was soon as Loma was in the same division again he went straight for Walters.

Lomachenko didn't talk 130 until the summer of 2016. He was making 126 no problem. His words were "Moved to 130 because none of the champs at 126 wanted to face him". It's what seperates him from Rigo for example asking the entire Boxing universe to move down to his division. Of course, his tune changed when he realized he can't get good TV dates or money so took the payday next week.

Ye, Rigo was at 122. A fight with Walters should've been next because they had proved they were the best at 126 regardless. Staying to "unify" when the best and most lucrative guy lost his belt could be seen as avoiding by some

No it isn't. Arum has often worked for the betterment of the higher draw. he is a promoter, that is what is best for his company. Loma had already lost to a bigger man so I can completely understand why it went down the way it did.

Walters wasn't a 126 champ at that point, so saying none of the other champs want to fight him was true, but it doesn't change the fact that in late 2015 when the fight was initially being planned for, he only wanted to fight "champions", even though the other champions were not as good as Walters, who had no belt.

The best time to make the fight was late 2015. That was when Loma (and Bob) said the fight couldn't happen and decided "unification" was more important than fighting Walters because he was the best. So its just a matter of how you as an individual judge this action.

Well he had to because HBO, TR and then ESPN trashed his reputation. Once he beat Nonito, HBO and TR did everything they could to shelve him and make things as hard as possible because he upset the plan they had for Nonito. Every weak dan rafael took shots at rigo and called him boring etc.
They should have embraced the win and rewarded him for such a big win IMO.

So now he is bringing Rigo up from 122 to 130. IMO Loma will win by KO.

[chrisJS]

Ye, Rigo was at 122. A fight with Walters should've been next because they had proved they were the best at 126 regardless. Staying to "unify" when the best and most lucrative guy lost his belt could be seen as avoiding by some

No it isn't. Arum has often worked for the betterment of the higher draw. he is a promoter, that is what is best for his company. Loma had already lost to a bigger man so I can completely understand why it went down the way it did.

Walters wasn't a 126 champ at that point, so saying none of the other champs want to fight him was true, but it doesn't change the fact that in late 2015 when the fight was initially being planned for, he only wanted to fight "champions", even though the other champions were not as good as Walters, who had no belt.

The best time to make the fight was late 2015. That was when Loma (and Bob) said the fight couldn't happen and decided "unification" was more important than fighting Walters because he was the best. So its just a matter of how you as an individual judge this action.

Well he had to because HBO, TR and then ESPN trashed his reputation. Once he beat Nonito, HBO and TR did everything they could to shelve him and make things as hard as possible because he upset the plan they had for Nonito. Every weak dan rafael took shots at rigo and called him boring etc.
They should have embraced the win and rewarded him for such a big win IMO.

So now he is bringing Rigo up from 122 to 130. IMO Loma will win by KO.

And they tried to make that fight and Walters turned that fight down. When in your opinion should the fight have happened. They tried him for the end of November and then in 2016. He said no each time. The same time Rigo was turning down the fight. He went to Roc Nation thinking now he'd be able to call the shots and miraculously everyone will line up to see him fight and his career went back further. Walters thought he could make a ton of money without Loma and was wrong. It sucks because these guys are excellent fighters who deserve to fight in front of large crowds and large audiences and it's not there. It's probably the thing that makes me most sad about Boxing - casual fans that only care if a fighter is from a certain place or if he's a huge name.

Cool, you think Walters got ducked. I don't. You thought Walters would still win I didn't. You blame the rust on Loma. I blame the rust on Walters rejecting the fight. We both agree on what will happen next week. Cool.

[The Big Dunn]

And they tried to make that fight and Walters turned that fight down. When in your opinion should the fight have happened. They tried him for the end of November and then in 2016. He said no each time. The same time Rigo was turning down the fight. He went to Roc Nation thinking now he'd be able to call the shots and miraculously everyone will line up to see him fight and his career went back further. Walters thought he could make a ton of money without Loma and was wrong. It sucks because these guys are excellent fighters who deserve to fight in front of large crowds and large audiences and it's not there. It's probably the thing that makes me most sad about Boxing - casual fans that only care if a fighter is from a certain place or if he's a huge name.

Cool, you think Walters got ducked. I don't. You thought Walters would still win I didn't. You blame the rust on Loma. I blame the rust on Walters rejecting the fight. We both agree on what will happen next week. Cool.

In 2015, after he beat Marriaga. That was when the fight was supposed to be next, after walters beat marriaga in June after Loma beat some dude in May. then it fell through because Loma only wanted to fight "unifications", then ended up fighting some unknown dude, Koasich (sp?), in Nov 2015.

I don't know that Walters thought that and you can't possibly know that.

I don't think walters got "ducked". I think Arum did everything he could to delay the fight until Loma was in a the best position to win. I also think the "pricing himself out" was another in the long history of Arum putting extras in a contract that he knows fighters advisers will suggest they turn down.

Just be sure to remember and factor in that Loma/Bob called the fight off in 2015 once Walters didn't have the belt.

[chrisJS]

In 2015, after he beat Marriaga. That was when the fight was supposed to be next, after walters beat marriaga in June after Loma beat some dude in May. then it fell through because Loma only wanted to fight "unifications", then ended up fighting some unknown dude, Koasich (sp?), in Nov 2015.

I don't know that Walters thought that and you can't possibly know that.

I don't think walters got "ducked". I think Arum did everything he could to delay the fight until Loma was in a the best position to win. I also think the "pricing himself out" was another in the long history of Arum putting extras in a contract that he knows fighters advisers will suggest they turn down.

Just be sure to remember and factor in that Loma/Bob called the fight off in 2015 once Walters didn't have the belt.

But they did offer him and Rigo the fight for a October/ November date and it was declined by both.

Even if they didn't offer the fight in late 2015 really what is so different between that and the first fight of 2016? I don't the difference is that much really. Especially considering both guys are hungry and in their 20's. Are you saying there was literally only a 2-3 month window for Loma-Walters and anything after that is null and void? He went about 9-10 months between Donaire and Marriaga. It will have been 8-9 months between Sosa and June.

[The Big Dunn]

But they did offer him and Rigo the fight for a October/ November date and it was declined by both.

Even if they didn't offer the fight in late 2015 really what is so different between that and the first fight of 2016? I don't the difference is that much really. Especially considering both guys are hungry and in their 20's. Are you saying there was literally only a 2-3 month window for Loma-Walters and anything after that is null and void? He went about 9-10 months between Donaire and Marriaga. It will have been 8-9 months between Sosa and June.

LMFAO! The difference is Walters was active and he would've been the bigger man, which gave him a much better chance of winning. Again, there was no debate that he and Loma were the 2 best 126lbers in the world. So to say unification was more important seems disingenuous.

No. I am saying that the best time to fight was late 2015, which is what HBO was moving toward by having them fight in May and June, because both were active. It wasn't Walters or HBO that deviated from this intial plan, it was Arum and Loma.

The time Walters was off was a factor ( note: this is the 4th post you have avoided answering why you didn't mention that Walters was coming off a long layoff) given that in other discussions you make this point often.

Maybe Loma wins if they fight in 2015. We will never know.

[Bravado]

Hindsight is always 20/20. Fact is THIS WAS A GOOD FIGHT WHEN IT WAS CALLED.

The fact that he buckled and refused to fight was shocking

[chrisJS]

LMFAO! The difference is Walters was active and he would've been the bigger man, which gave him a much better chance of winning. Again, there was no debate that he and Loma were the 2 best 126lbers in the world. So to say unification was more important seems disingenuous.

No. I am saying that the best time to fight was late 2015, which is what HBO was moving toward by having them fight in May and June, because both were active. It wasn't Walters or HBO that deviated from this intial plan, it was Arum and Loma.

The time Walters was off was a factor ( note: this is the 4th post you have avoided answering why you didn't mention that Walters was coming off a long layoff) given that in other discussions you make this point often.

Maybe Loma wins if they fight in 2015. We will never know.

I've completely acknowledged it multiple times. I said it's on Walters for rejecting the fight. He rejected the fight in 2015 and went with a Sosa bout (when he was already at 130) and then rejected it again for June of 2016. The ring rust is on Walters. It doesn't make the rust go away but it doesn't mean the blame for the rust goes with someone else when the decision was on him and his team. Ring rust I think is less of a factor for guys in the prime of their careers and in their 20's. Not like Walters had a lot of wear and tear and was in his 30's but obviously some sharpness is lost.

Walters was also the bigger man in November 2016. I went to the fight and the weigh-in and saw them close. I don't think Walters shrunk in 5 months or that Loma suddenly equaled his size.

I think looking at the action its clear who the better fighter was and who'd always win. If Walters had landed some shots or been competitive I could understand one thinking it could be different (I don't but whatever) but Lomachenko won 1260 seconds of a 1260 second fight. The Walters from the Marriaga and Sosa fights doesn't strike me as a guy that can beat Lomachenko from his 3rd, 4th fight onward. Doesn't always work this way but the gulf in class between Lomachenko and those two guys (and Walters) shows that the result surely couldn't be much different.

Maybe the fight will have gone as I thought it would 119-109/118-110 type of fight. It was headed to 120-108 or stoppage had he not quit.