Would Mayweather Still Be Considered Great If He Had a Loss?

[chrisJS]

The argument "he's beat the most champs" is a ***** one too. This is the era of 17 divisions 4 titles each and cherry picking/stat stuffing. Robinson era for example 8 champions in the whole sport. Robinson probably entered the ring about 30 times vs. a hall of famer that's a better, more measurable stat.

Danny Garcia has beaten more champs than did Alexis Arguello. He's not better at Boxing. De La Hoya fought the most of any all-time, he's not better than Ali for example. Pacquaio isn't top 3 all-time either. Those three mastered the art of stat stuffing and hopping around winning multiple titles and beating multiple "champions" without ever unifying. Bottom line it's a useless argument.

Same as "titles" won. None of those guys ever even majority unified a division and it's easier to win multiple titles when there's 68 than if there's 8 or say 20 for example. That's based on facts and math. I don't think Leo Gamez is better than Willie Pep either and nope Broner is not a better fighter than Carlos Monzon or Hagler the way Floyd fanboys state he is.

[djtmal]

The argument "he's beat the most champs" is a ***** one too. This is the era of 17 divisions 4 titles each and cherry picking/stat stuffing. Robinson era for example 8 champions in the whole sport. Robinson probably entered the ring about 30 times vs. a hall of famer that's a better, more measurable stat.

Danny Garcia has beaten more champs than did Alexis Arguello. He's not better at Boxing. De La Hoya fought the most of any all-time, he's not better than Ali for example. Pacquaio isn't top 3 all-time either. Those three mastered the art of stat stuffing and hopping around winning multiple titles and beating multiple "champions" without ever unifying. Bottom line it's a useless argument.

Same as "titles" won. None of those guys ever even majority unified a division and it's easier to win multiple titles when there's 68 than if there's 8 or say 20 for example. That's based on facts and math. I don't think Leo Gamez is better than Willie Pep either and nope Broner is not a better fighter than Carlos Monzon or Hagler the way Floyd fanboys state he is.

ask larry he thinks floyd beating all those paper champs makes him tbe

[chrisJS]

ask larry he thinks floyd beating all those paper champs makes him tbe

It's an awful point to make when discussing all-time since all-time is a long time and up until 30 years ago there was a maximum of 16 men who could claim to be champs and 8 men 50 years ago now there's over 100 with the super champs, emeritus champs and so forth.

Fighters these days don't fight 200 fights yet that's conveniently not used to boost up old-timers instead "losses" are what "count". Even non-title fight losses. Titles mean different things in diff era's as does the word "champion".

Billy Joe Saunders is not a better fighter than Charles Burley the way Mayweather fans think. Nor is Charles Martin better than Sam Langford.

[djtmal]

It's an awful point to make when discussing all-time since all-time is a long time and up until 30 years ago there was a maximum of 16 men who could claim to be champs and 8 men 50 years ago now there's over 100 with the super champs, emeritus champs and so forth.

Fighters these days don't fight 200 fights yet that's conveniently not used to boost up old-timers instead "losses" are what "count". Even non-title fight losses. Titles mean different things in diff era's as does the word "champion".

Billy Joe Saunders is not a better fighter than Charles Burley the way Mayweather fans think. Nor is Charles Martin better than Sam Langford.

i understand this, and use it as a guideline when i am evaluating fighters who have to navigate the muck that is today's scene...much respect for breaking the game down correctly

but you can break this down to a floyd boy, and he'll say in the next sentence that floyd beat more (paper) champs so he is tbe...i don't know who is worst, floyd, or the floydboys...

[Lou Cipher]

[IronDanHamza]

he didn't imply anything, he said hagler was not knocked out...just because he lost a step in between mugabi and sugar, doesn't mean he was faded...

he got a ud vs duran, ko'd hearns in 3, and ko'd mugabi in 11...two atg's in there to boot...did he lose a step, yeah, but completely faded? you're exaggerating...

if he was completely faded, srl would have demolished him...

Two ATG's but neither in their prime but that we know as Hagler didn't beat any prime ATG's but that's another story.

He did clearly imply that. He may have even literally said it. I was correcting him as Leonard did wait for him to fade that's a fact.

Never said "completely faded" I said he faded which he did.

And Leonard probably wouldn't have destroyed him regardless because he was retired for 3 years and having his first fight at Middleweight. Getting beat up and dropped in sparring too. It's abit embarrassing that Hagler let it be close enough to lose.

[djtmal]

the first castillo fight looked to be a draw at best

[chrisJS]

i understand this, and use it as a guideline when i am evaluating fighters who have to navigate the muck that is today's scene...much respect for breaking the game down correctly

but you can break this down to a floyd boy, and he'll say in the next sentence that floyd beat more (paper) champs so he is tbe...i don't know who is worst, floyd, or the floydboys...

The fanboys.

Floyd does it to sell tickets and to fool fans. They blindly follow and have almost given up on the rest of the sport for their leader. They allowed themselves to be dumbed down (or were dumb to be begin with and got ****** in).

[Tony Trick-Pony]

sugar ray leonard. ready to go resume for resume?

ok i got prime benitez, prime duran, prime hearns, near prime hagler, and lineal 154 pound champ kalule as a tune up. your turn! if leonard was floyd he would have waited for hagler to be ko'd cold. its all the same to you right? hes got the name thats all the matters!

Excellent post...

[Tony Trick-Pony]

I don't think he ever would have done the PPV numbers he did if he'd lost. Many people paid to see him lose. If it had already happened, there wouldn't have been as much interest.