Usyk vs Ward.

[DrHouse579]

Do you realize that Perez was a cruiserweight for a long time before he moved up to HW? If you do, why you you keep mentioning it was only his second fight at the weight class when it's not true?

Maybe he was a natural cruiserweight, but he had not fought professionally at cruiserweight. Don't know what you're talking about here.. do you mean as an amateur?

And even if that is Perez's natural weight, he literally hadn't had a single minute at the weight before jumping in for 12 rounds against a "top guy" at cruiser. Literally, not a minute! His fight with some euro bum in UK lasted like 20 seconds.

[GMAN SUPREME]

usyk easily beats ward makes him look ******.

[DrHouse579]

He was moving to the right side and completely neutralized Perez right hook as a result, and that right hook was Perez best weapon against Abdusalamov. That's just one example. He can adjust to opponents that's why his fight with Perez doesn't look like his previous fights

From what I recall he looked similar in the Marco Huck fight, which was his only other notable win.

Yeah, he doesn't look completely lost in there I'll give him that. But, at 32 and having only fought 2 names, people act like he's some world beater who makes the CW division look good.

[Sheldon312]

I respect Loma and Usyk were Gold medalists. I really do.. but you can't say Usyk's resume AS A PRO deems a top 10 p4p spot. That's literally all I'm arguing. I love Loma and Usyk. But, Usyk isn't on Loma's level using the eye-test or resume. Can someone just be a fan of both without over-hyping Usyk? People literally act like they are a package deal or some ****..

That's funny coming from someone who claims Crawford is P4P 1. I can argue that Usyk is more skilled than Crawford.

[g27region]

And even if that is Perez's natural weight, he literally hadn't had a single minute at the weight before jumping in for 12 rounds against a "top guy" at cruiser. Literally, not a minute! His fight with some euro bum in UK lasted like 20 seconds.

Maybe Perez had to get more experience at the weight. Here's something I can't understand

See, you said that cruiserweight division has only 2-3 names - Gassiev, Usyk and Briedis.
And everyone else is "old, has multiple losses, and tapped out potential-wise.". Which sounds like Braehmer who you mentioned before.

Why some fighter like Braehmer deserves mentioning from you, but not Huck who's way more accomplished than Braehmer ever was? That's the first question

Why you don't mention Dorticos? He's undefeated, and isn't older than somebody like Briedis. Tapped out potential-wise doesn't sound like him either. He abused every fighter he faced, 21 KO's in 22 fights

Try to find 4 young or prime, undefeated champions of Gassiev/Dorticos/Usyk/Briedis caliber at 147-168 divisions who would fit the standarts you set for CW. Just to prove your point these divisions are deeper

The both of these favorites of 168 WBSS were beaten already. Most of these 168 names you mentioned doesn't even fit the "young, undefeated, not tapped out potential-wise" criteria that you ask for cruiserweights

From what I recall he looked similar in the Marco Huck fight, which was his only other notable win.

Yeah, he doesn't look completely lost in there I'll give him that. But, at 32 and having only fought 2 names, people act like he's some world beater who makes the CW division look good.

Because Huck is a dirty fighter too

Watch his fight with Charr

Charr and Duradola weren't elite, but they're solid guys and Briedis dominated them with ease

[DrHouse579]

Maybe Perez had to get more experience at the weight. Here's something I can't understand

See, you said that cruiserweight division has only 2-3 names - Gassiev, Usyk and Briedis.
And everyone else is "old, has multiple losses, and tapped out potential-wise.". Which sounds like Braehmer who you mentioned before.

Why some fighter like Braehmer deserves mentioning from you, but not Huck who's way more accomplished than Braehmer ever was? That's the first question

Why you don't mention Dorticos? He's undefeated, and isn't older than somebody like Briedis. Tapped out potential-wise doesn't sound like him either. He abused every fighter he faced, 21 KO's in 22 fights

Try to find 4 young or prime, undefeated champions of Gassiev/Dorticos/Usyk/Briedis caliber at 147-168 divisions who would fit the standarts you set for CW. Just to prove your point these divisions are deeper

The both of these favorites of 168 WBSS were beaten already. Most of these 168 names you mentioned doesn't even fit the "young, undefeated, not tapped out potential-wise" criteria that you ask for cruiserweights

OK, so you agree Perez had not fought at CW before, definitely had not been 12 rounds at CW, hadn't REALLY fought since 2015, and probably should not have caused Breidis any problems?

If you read that post, Braehmer was just one of the names I mentioned. Huck was more accomplished than Braehmer but in terms of what they offer to a division in terms of competition they are basically the same. And Braehmer is possibly more dangerous at 168 than Huck was at 200 because he will be the naturally bigger guy against everyone in the tourney except maybe Callum.

Why didn't you mention the others? Eubank Jr, Callum Smith, George groves, David Benavidez, Gilberto Ramirez? Having a loss or two doesn't hurt as much if they were against top level opposition. Eubank Jr lost a narrow decision to a much more experienced and crafty BJS. George Groves was kicking Froch's ass in the first fight before the early stoppage, but did get stomped 2nd time. Still, a loss to Froch is nothing to be ashamed of (in front of 80k fans at Wembley, as Carl would remind). Smith Benavidez and Ramirez perfectly fit my description of young, undefeated fighters who haven't fulfilled their potential. BUT most importantly, everyone I just listed are proven at world level in some way or another more than Gassiev, Dorticos, and Breidis. Usyk is the only real deal I see, as I've mentioned many times over in this thread.

Dorticos and Breidis are in their 30's and unlikely to show anymore improvement. Gassiev is the youngest at CW with the most potential, but we need to see how he does in this tourney to even get started on where he could go (1 close decision over 38 year old Lebedev isn't enough for me).

[HI-TECH Boxing]

I have no idea how anybody had Huck winning rounds against Usyk.
Like I said earlier though, guys like Usyk and Lomachenko seem to be held to a higher standard than everyone else.

Oh no they missed punches! The funny thing is that Usyk is landing at a similar rate to Ward. But Ward throws a lot less and picks his shots, while Usyk is more of a volume puncher. Usyk should be landing at a much lower percentage but he isn't. He is right there with Ward.

Oh no they didn't work every single second of the round so they lost it. Meanwhile guys like Ward sometimes go rounds without doing much and it's considered a masterclass.

Also, people act like Ward has never lost a round in his pro career. Ward has lost plenty of rounds including early in his career to guys like Boone and Kenny Kost.
Suddenly losing a round to Mchunu and a couple to Hunter doesn't look too bad does it?

And for those saying that Stevenson or Kovalev would beat the top Cruiserweights. All I can say is that I would love to see them do it.
There is only one way to find out. Lets see if Kovalev and Stevenson can really beat Usyk. I'm not the one telling them to move up, but I've sure been seeing several people make that claim.
Ward is retired. His career is over. That's it. No point in debating that. Ward fans will of course take him in any mythical match up even against Joshua I bet.

[Mr Objecitivity]

I have no idea how anybody had Huck winning rounds against Usyk.
Like I said earlier though, guys like Usyk and Lomachenko seem to be held to a higher standard than everyone else.

Oh no they missed punches! The funny thing is that Usyk is landing at a similar rate to Ward. But Ward throws a lot less and picks his shots, while Usyk is more of a volume puncher. Usyk should be landing at a much lower percentage but he isn't. He is right there with Ward.

Oh no they didn't work every single second of the round so they lost it. Meanwhile guys like Ward sometimes go rounds without doing much and it's considered a masterclass.

Also, people act like Ward has never lost a round in his pro career. Ward has lost plenty of rounds including early in his career to guys like Boone and Kenny Kost.
Suddenly losing a round to Mchunu and a couple to Hunter doesn't look too bad does it?

And for those saying that Stevenson or Kovalev would beat the top Cruiserweights. All I can say is that I would love to see them do it.
There is only one way to find out. Lets see if Kovalev and Stevenson can really beat Usyk. I'm not the one telling them to move up, but I've sure been seeing several people make that claim.
Ward is retired. His career is over. That's it. No point in debating that. Ward fans will of course take him in any mythical match up even against Joshua I bet.

This exactly sums up my thoughts. Other than having to write: UNBELIEVABLE at the EXTRAORDINARY claims some of the posters are posting here!

Those who believe Andre Ward can beat Oleksandr Usyk at cruiserweight. Here is a very simple question for all of you:

Why didn't Andre Ward move up to cruiserweight to fight Oleksandr Usyk, instead of moving up to light heavyweight fight Sergey Kovalev?

It is as simple as that! Any boxer that can compete at the heaviest weight division and is capable of beating the very best in that weight division, would be competing in that weight division and not the division below. The fact that Ward chose Kovalev and light heavyweight instead of cruiserweight and Oleksandr Usyk tells me all I need to know about Ward's chances at beating any of the best cruiserweights at cruiserweight. Which is extremely low! Why? Because light heavyweight is most likely Andre Ward's limit.

Andre Ward at cruiserweight has had 0 professional fights, 0 wins, 0 knockouts and 0 record. So to state that Ward can just move up to such a weight division where he has proven nothing and beat not just any cruiserweight, but indisputably one of the two best cruiserweights in the world is an EXTREMELY EXTRAORDINARY claim. Andre Ward's feats below cruiserweight becomes irrelevant if the bout takes place at cruiserweight, since it is totally a different weight division with different features. There's no reason to even assume Andre Ward would carry some of his abilities that made him so successful at the lighter weight division and would be just as effective at cruiser-weight with those abilities, as he was in weight divisions below.

Anyway, I personally think Oleksandr Usyk is a better boxer, even if they were to be the same size. The fact that Usyk is much bigger, actually makes this bout almost a mismatch.

I'd like to know what is so impressive about Andre Ward, which some use to make it seem like he is so much superior in terms of boxing abilities than Oleksandr Usyk. What is it?

Furthermore, arguing over whether the cruiserweight division is weaker / stronger than other weight divisions is a futile topic to argue over. Truth is, there is no objective way to prove whether one weight division has better boxers than another weight division. Even if someone in a weight division is a clear favorite to be the best (like Usyk is at cruiserweight), it doesn't necessarily mean that his opponents are poor overall compared to boxers from other weight divisions. It could just as easily mean that Oleksandr Usyk is simply that much better than his competition that he makes them all look poor. Whilst in the more competitive weight divisions, there may not exist a boxer who is as dominant and as superior by as big of a margin, relative to his competition than Usyk is compared to his own competition.

[DrHouse579]

Furthermore, arguing over whether the cruiserweight division is weaker / stronger than other weight divisions is a futile topic to argue over. Truth is, there is no objective way to prove whether one weight division has better boxers than another weight division. Even if someone in a weight division is a clear favorite to be the best (like Usyk is at cruiserweight), it doesn't necessarily mean that his opponents are poor overall compared to boxers from other weight divisions. It could just as easily mean that Oleksandr Usyk is simply that much better than his competition that he makes them all look poor. Whilst in the more competitive weight divisions, there may not exist a boxer who is as dominant and as superior by as big of a margin, relative to his competition than Usyk is compared to his own competition.

Yes, there is no objective way to prove if one division is stronger or weaker than another, but don't do a complete 180 and say division strength doesn't matter. It does. I think it's both in this case: Usyk IS that much better than the comp, and the competition just isn't very good. That's precisely why it's so great to see this tourney and if and when he wins, it'll be a legacy-defining notch on his belt. Ultimately, it probably still won't be enough to get him on mainstream p4p lists, and he will have to either defend his spot for the next 10 years like vladimir did or move up and prove himself at heavyweight. Just the sad reality, unfortunately.

Vladimir Klitchsko's legacy defining moment is a loss to Anthony Joshua. It's crazy that he will get more credit for how he fought in a KO loss than any other stretch of his title reign, but that's what happens when you are the man of a division during a weak era.

[Fists_of_Fury]

Usyk is a notorious slow starter he feels his opp out completely by acting, he's goes beast mode in the later rounds and opps have no answer his boxing IQ is floyd like.