Where do you rate Floyd in ATG p4p list?

[DreamerUSA]

Exactly. And like I say, I think I would beat up Ray Robinson myself. He was trash, but back then it was the greatest you had at that time. I know they had less belts and weight classes back then, so the road traveled was far more challenging.

But Im just saying that the talent, specifically, is on a completely different level. Wasnt no Rigo's, Crawford's, Loma's, or Ward's running around back then.

But Floyd specifically put pieces together that even those fighters named, havent figured out. He was too consistent, but they got room to grow. I can imagine a younger Floyd losing, in an alternative universe.

Oh FFS what exactly was trash about SRR? He is arguably the best offensive fighter ever. He was no slouch in the defense department especially for a guy that was so offensively minded. He had mad skills, power, stamina, and also possibly one of the best chins ever. He was the total package.


I got no problems with people that think modern day fighters would beat the old school fighters, but just don't pull **** out of your ass to try and **** on an ATG. If you actually watch film of SRR and think he is a trash, you're just a ****ing idiot.

[-Kev-]

P4P, in their prime, Roy Jones is the greatest fighter i've seen. Size being equal, I don't see who beats Roy in his prime.

I would also put Floyd up there too, but he's not as invincible as Roy. But size being equal (no 10-20lb advantage for his opponent), Floyd would be a tough, controversial fight for anyone in history. For example if Floyd managed to stay at 130 for all 50 fights, and fought all 126-130 ATG's, he'd have beaten each and everyone of them, size being equal.

[djtmal]

somewhere betweeen 1 and 100

[daggum]

trash resume. no prime greats. how can you accurately rank someone who didnt fight on the same level as other past greats? longevity is overrated as hell. leonard only fought on the top level for 4-5 years and has 4 wins that are better than any win floyd has.

[DJ Enerate]

I've seen tape on most of the fighters you mentioned, good to study them all. There are some lost techniques for sure, but the reason why many techniques die out is that they get figured out and rendered ineffective. Boxing is not devolving, it's evolving, just like every other sport.

If you have truly seen tapes of some of those guys you should know the best boxers around now are not better or more evolved than them as the difference in skill level stands out a mile with the exception of a few like Loma who seems to have a skill set that can compare.

The reason techniques die out is definitely not because they get figured out. It is more to do with the death of the older trainers who taught them and the changes in the way fights are being controlled by the ref. Ìf the craft of in-fighting has been figured out rather than it dying out then name me one current fighter who could be thrown back in time into the ring with prime Roberto Duran and be able to figure him out ? Name me some of this current super evolved crop who could do this ? The art of shifting is still very effective when used by the rare fighters who still pull it off. GGG does it to high effect. And Pirog was a master at shifting. Watch him do it when he knocks out Danny Jacobs. If more of the current fighters could still learn these arts they would be better/more complete than what they are now and that is a fact.

Also another great example that slays this crazy opinion that current boxers are so evolved they would beat the greats of the past is the so called thriving British scene at world level. If current boxers have evolved for the better how come not even one of the UK world level fighters look anywhere near close to the technical skill and talent of Ken Buchanan and John Conteh ? There's many others as well. Where are all these evolved guys actually at ? You name them and I'll go back in time and pick dozens better.

[koolkc107]

I think what is fair to say is that right now he is top 10.

And, as time goes on, he will move up more- perhaps a lot more.

The two dozen wins against other champions, the dozen wins over lineal champs is hard to discount.

And a decade from now, we could be looking at 10 to 12 wins over other HOF fighters.

Throw in his statuses for defense and accuracy and you can easily argue him as top or near the top P4P.

I will still take a few others over Floyd personally, but the argument for him is definitely there.

[DJ Enerate]

I think what is fair to say is that right now he is top 10.

And, as time goes on, he will move up more- perhaps a lot more.

The two dozen wins against other champions, the dozen wins over lineal champs is hard to discount.

And a decade from now, we could be looking at 10 to 12 wins over other HOF fighters.

Throw in his statuses for defense and accuracy and you can easily argue him as top or near the top P4P.

I will still take a few others over Floyd personally, but the argument for him is definitely there.

Floyd only really has potentially 7 or 8 hof boxers on his record. No way he has potentially 10 or 12. He has 4 dead certs on there and might get up to 8 one day. Even if he does get up to 8 holes will be picked in his resume due to the prime issues etc. Jimmy McLarnin has 11 hof wins which is one better than SRR and only Greb beats with 13 but Mclarnin sits at around the 20 mark on most credible ATG lists due to holes being picked in his record. The usual shot, green, outsized issues.

[koolkc107]

Floyd only really has potentially 7 or 8 hof boxers on his record. No way he has potentially 10 or 12. He has 4 dead certs on there and might get up to 8 one day. Even if he does get up to 8 holes will be picked in his resume due to the prime issues etc. Jimmy McLarnin has 11 hof wins which is one better than SRR and only Greb beats with 14 but Mclarnin sits at around the 20 mark on most credible ATG lists due to holes being picked in his record. The usual Shot, green, outsized issues.

I count 2 already in (Gatti & DLH) and 10 more that definitely get in sooner or later:

Hernandez, Corrales, Castillo, Judah, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley, Cotto, Alvarez, and Pacquiao.

And there are other names on his resume that stand a good chance to get in also, winning belts in more than one weight class.

[BoxingTrav]

Floyd is the only great athlete who is judged only on the last half of his career. Like we didn't see him knocking people out when he was younger. He also is the only one that somehow is not allowed to age. He supposedly waited for opponents to get older even though he was older than them.

Floyd went from a flamethrower to a precision pitcher. That is an adjustment that athletes struggle with. Going from a physical superiority to mental superiority. He was dominant at both.

History will elevate Floyd.

[TMTForever99]

Floyd is the only great athlete who is judged only on the last half of his career. Like we didn't see him knocking people out when he was younger. He also is the only one that somehow is not allowed to age. He supposedly waited for opponents to get older even though he was older than them.

Floyd went from a flamethrower to a precision pitcher. That is an adjustment that athletes struggle with. Going from a physical superiority to mental superiority. He was dominant at both.

History will elevate Floyd.

great post!