Are promoters freezing out PBC?

[killakali]

Nobody knows how much was spent, let alone how much was lost. What we do know is that HBO's budget is shrinking and shrinking while Showtime's budget is growing and growing. Haymon has nearly the entire Showtime budget to work with while Arum, Duva, DLH, K2, Roc Nation, etc all have to split the tiny HBO budget.

So if Haymon's goal was to eventually wind up with a near monopoly of big time US boxing, he's well on his way. The other promoters can't survive all having to split HBO's evaporating budget while Haymon has the growing Showtime budget practically all to himself.




NBC took the money and then made it clear they never had any interest in boxing. ESPN is undergoing massive budget cuts and isn't willing to pay for boxing.

But Haymon only needs one interested party and right now he has two (CBS & FOX). So he's sitting pretty.

how many fights combined have those two "very interested" networks CBS and Fox shown through the first half of 2017? One fight each? Oh yah they are very interested lol and the one Fox card was a time buy by PBC. Fox didn't buy the card.

The problem is most of the PBC fighters aren't very happy. They want to be more active but there aren't enough dates for the higher level fighters to fight more than 1 or at most twice a year. What do Broner, Porter, Thurman, Stevenson, Fonfara, Jacobs etc all have in common? One fight each last year.

[Motorcity Cobra]

That is your opinion, nothing more. You havent the slightest idea what sort of offers, if any, that Haymon has given Golden Boy for a Garcia-Linares tilt.

Frank Warren isn't paying more than Showtime for Linares. Linares v. Garcia is a bigger fight than Linares vs. Flanagan. You didn't challenge my reasoning for making that statement, you just blew off the statement. For the simple fact that Showtime bought Linares last fight when HBO didn't want any parts of either of his fights against Crolla shows Showtime was ready to spend money on a Garcia-Linares fight. The whole purpose of buying that fight was to build up Garcia vs. Linares.

Yes it's my opinion but my opinion with solid reasoning behind it.

[OnePunch]

Frank Warren isn't paying more than Showtime for Linares. Linares v. Garcia is a bigger fight than Linares vs. Flanagan. You didn't challenge my reasoning for making that statement, you just blew off the statement. For the simple fact that Showtime bought Linares last fight when HBO didn't want any parts of either of his fights against Crolla shows Showtime was ready to spend money on a Garcia-Linares fight. The whole purpose of buying that fight was to build up Garcia vs. Linares.

Yes it's my opinion but my opinion with solid reasoning behind it.

you act as if Showtime would be dealing directly with Linares or Golden Boy. Hint: They wouldnt. What Showtime might, or might not pay for a Garcia-Linares clash has nothing to do with what Haymon would ultimately offer Golden Boy to secure the services of Linares. Those are 2 completely different numbers. And yes, on its face, Garcia-Linares is a more significant fight than Flanagan-Linares, but that doesnt mean that the revenue to Linares would automatically be more for the Garcia fight. Its also entirely possible that Warren would put an equally attractive package together.

But at the moment EVERY SINGLE BIT of this is speculation on your part. Did Haymon make an offer to GBP? How much was it? Did GBP counter offer? See, you dont have answers to any of these questions. You just want to blame GBP for not accepting an offer that you dont even know was made in the first place.

[original zero]

how many fights combined have those two "very interested" networks CBS and Fox shown through the first half of 2017? One fight each? Oh yah they are very interested lol and the one Fox card was a time buy by PBC. Fox didn't buy the card.

The CBS corporation is spending more on boxing than they were before PBC. 21st Century Fox is spending more on boxing than they were before PBC. Not every card, or any card, has to be on the main CBS network or the main FOX network for Haymon to grow the pie compared to what it would have been had he stayed with HBO.

That is what you're ignoring. The investment made in Haymon's stable has resulted in CBS & FOX loosening the purse strings for Showtime and FS1. Rather than keep up, HBO has decided to cut back. These are two very significant changes in the marketplace since PBC launched. You can't argue that they're unrelated. CBS is more committed to boxing than they've ever been and Time Warner is less committed to boxing than they've ever been.

Does Haymon have more power in US boxing than he did four years ago? Yes. Does he have more dates? Yes. Does he have more world champions? Yes. Do his competitors have fewer dates? Yes. Do his competitors have fewer world champions? Yes. Etc etc. You keep rooting for Haymon to fail, but every year that goes by, his influence increases.

The problem is most of the PBC fighters aren't very happy. They want to be more active but there aren't enough dates for the higher level fighters to fight more than 1 or at most twice a year.

Could say the same exact thing about most Top Rank, Main Events, Golden Boy, Roc Nation, etc fighters as well. This is nothing new. There are only so many dates to go around. There are only so many titles to go around. But Haymon has a much greater chance of getting you on TV and getting you a belt than any other US manager or promoter and his ability to get you on TV and get you a belt continues to increase while everybody else's ability to get you on TV and get you a belt continues to shrink.

What do Broner, Porter, Thurman, Stevenson, Fonfara, Jacobs etc all have in common? One fight each last year.

And all of them (except maybe Fonfara) are multimillionaires, with years of big fights still ahead of them for many more millions if they so choose. You really think Broner, Porter, Thurman, Jacobs, etc are looking back on their career thinking oh man I never should have signed with Haymon back in the day? Which manager would have had a better chance of making them as much money as they've made in their careers?

You just have a completely irrational bias and that bias gets worse and worse as time goes on and you're proven wrong more and more. How is HBO's boxing schedule comparing to 2-3 years ago? How is Showtime boxing schedule comparing to 2-3 years ago? Is there really any doubt where the industry is heading?

[Motorcity Cobra]

you act as if Showtime would be dealing directly with Linares or Golden Boy. Hint: They wouldnt. What Showtime might, or might not pay for a Garcia-Linares clash has nothing to do with what Haymon would ultimately offer Golden Boy to secure the services of Linares. Those are 2 completely different numbers. And yes, on its face, Garcia-Linares is a more significant fight than Flanagan-Linares, but that doesnt mean that the revenue to Linares would automatically be more for the Garcia fight. Its also entirely possible that Warren would put an equally attractive package together.

But at the moment EVERY SINGLE BIT of this is speculation on your part. Did Haymon make an offer to GBP? How much was it? Did GBP counter offer? See, you dont have answers to any of these questions. You just want to blame GBP for not accepting an offer that you dont even know was made in the first place.

I know it's speculation and I gave my reasoning to justify my speculation. Even you admit Linares-Garcia is a bigger fight than Flanagan-Linares so why won't you admit there's more money in it?

As far as offers to Golden Boy I'm going by Golden Boy's prior action of not allowing their fighters to fight on PBC cards. This is the one fact we DO KNOW! No matter how people are trying to spin this about contracts, promotional agreements, TV Networks blah blah blah. Let's go by Golden Boy's actions an hold them accountable for once

Golden Boy argued that Al Haymon’s stable of boxers were pushed into deals that benefitted him and tied up fighters from working with other promoters like Golden Boy. The judge ruled against this argument, stating Golden Boy provided no declarations or depositions from any boxers on this matter and that Haymon’s fighters made more money as a result of working with him because fights he signed with other promoters were lucrative.
Judge Walter turned the tables against Golden Boy and used their own words against them:
In fact, the evidence suggests that it is Golden Boy, not Defendants, that has refused to deal with the Haymon En****** during the pendency of this lawsuit. Indeed, in May 2015, Robert Diaz (Golden Boy’s matchmaker) received a suggestion from the manager of then Golden Boy-promoted heavyweight, Luis Ortiz, to try to place Mr. Ortiz in a bout that is featured within a PBC show. Mr. Diaz responded, “Are you serious? You do know we have sued Haymon right?”.

[killakali]

The CBS corporation is spending more on boxing than they were before PBC. 21st Century Fox is spending more on boxing than they were before PBC. Not every card, or any card, has to be on the main CBS network or the main FOX network for Haymon to grow the pie compared to what it would have been had he stayed with HBO.

That is what you're ignoring. The investment made in Haymon's stable has resulted in CBS & FOX loosening the purse strings for Showtime and FS1. Rather than keep up, HBO has decided to cut back. These are two very significant changes in the marketplace since PBC launched. You can't argue that they're unrelated. CBS is more committed to boxing than they've ever been and Time Warner is less committed to boxing than they've ever been.

Does Haymon have more power in US boxing than he did four years ago? Yes. Does he have more dates? Yes. Does he have more world champions? Yes. Do his competitors have fewer dates? Yes. Do his competitors have fewer world champions? Yes. Etc etc. You keep rooting for Haymon to fail, but every year that goes by, his influence increases.




Could say the same exact thing about most Top Rank, Main Events, Golden Boy, Roc Nation, etc fighters as well. This is nothing new. There are only so many dates to go around. There are only so many titles to go around. But Haymon has a much greater chance of getting you on TV and getting you a belt than any other US manager or promoter and his ability to get you on TV and get you a belt continues to increase while everybody else's ability to get you on TV and get you a belt continues to shrink.




And all of them (except maybe Fonfara) are multimillionaires, with years of big fights still ahead of them for many more millions if they so choose. You really think Broner, Porter, Thurman, Jacobs, etc are looking back on their career thinking oh man I never should have signed with Haymon back in the day? Which manager would have had a better chance of making them as much money as they've made in their careers?

You just have a completely irrational bias and that bias gets worse and worse as time goes on and you're proven wrong more and more. How is HBO's boxing schedule comparing to 2-3 years ago? How is Showtime boxing schedule comparing to 2-3 years ago? Is there really any doubt where the industry is heading?

you're bias is making you completely irrational. Fox spending more now than before WTF? They haven't spent .10 on boxing lmao. Those are time buys for their whole 2 fights a year.

Almost all of the fighters I mentioned have openly complained about inactivity. We have seen Thurman, Porter, Jacobs, Berto, Pedraza, Vanes, etc OPENLY COMPLAIN about inactivity. Clearly they aren't happy campers. Point Blank. Mic dropped

[OnePunch]

I know it's speculation and I gave my reasoning to justify my speculation. Even you admit Linares-Garcia is a bigger fight than Flanagan-Linares so why won't you admit there's more money in it?

As far as offers to Golden Boy I'm going by Golden Boy's prior action of not allowing their fighters to fight on PBC cards. This is the one fact we DO KNOW! No matter how people are trying to spin this about contracts, promotional agreements, TV Networks blah blah blah. Let's go by Golden Boy's actions an hold them accountable for once

just because something is a "bigger fight", that doesnt automatically mean there is more money in it for the B-side. Give me ONE example of Haymon offering big dollars for a credible non-PBC fighter to fight one of his guys on a PBC card. Just one example. I'll wait......

[Motorcity Cobra]

just because something is a "bigger fight", that doesnt automatically mean there is more money in it for the B-side. Give me ONE example of Haymon offering big dollars for a credible non-PBC fighter to fight one of his guys on a PBC card. Just one example. I'll wait......

We don't know all the details of what he's offered, right? You don't want to get into speculation even when I give a reason why I'm speculating. So let's stick to the facts. The facts is Golden Boy won't let their fighters fight on PBC cards. As a fight fan why is that acceptable to you?

[OnePunch]

We don't know all the details of what he's offered, right? You don't want to get into speculation even when I give a reason why I'm speculating. So let's stick to the facts. The facts is Golden Boy won't let their fighters fight on PBC cards. As a fight fan why is that acceptable to you?

That is not a fact, that is speculation.

What IS fact though is that in the history of the PBC, I cannot recall a single occurance where a credible non-PBC fighter fought a PBC fighter in the main event. I cant think of a single instance. So is that GBPs fault too??? Because on its face it would seem that Haymon is the one who cant seem to "play well with others" when it comes to PBC shows......

but Im sure you know of many instances where Haymon made good offers to credible non-PBC fighters to fight his guys on his shows. Whether its Thurman, Garcia, Broner, etc etc Im sure you can list all kinds of offers that have been made.

Or not..........

[Lester Tutor]

That is not a fact, that is speculation.

What IS fact though is that in the history of the PBC, I cannot recall a single occurance where a credible non-PBC fighter fought a PBC fighter in the main event. I cant think of a single instance. So is that GBPs fault too??? Because on its face it would seem that Haymon is the one who cant seem to "play well with others" when it comes to PBC shows......

but Im sure you know of many instances where Haymon made good offers to credible non-PBC fighters to fight his guys on his shows. Whether its Thurman, Garcia, Broner, etc etc Im sure you can list all kinds of offers that have been made.

Or not..........

It seems Haymon can't play well with "others?" It was the PBC fighter Joe Smith Jr. that went into HBO to fight a GBP mafioso... It was Haymon's advisory to give Chavez Jr. to GBP... the "black hitler" just doesn't get enough credit..

Linares vs Garcia can happen. It has to be on HBO of course