Are promoters freezing out PBC?

[North Star]

I think it's mostly due to the well drying up. If the blanket promoters that Haymon would use to run a show were getting a flat check, due to the finances drying up that flat check may be smaller, possibly to the point that the blanket promoter says 'no thank you'.

So I don't think it's a case of promoters freeing out PBC, I just think the well dried up and the market may have turned for the worse for them. Throwing too much money around has caused waves in market value and it may have proven to be a double edged sword for PBC.

[original zero]

Thanks. Im still trying to understnad this though. Are ALL Sho Fights, PBC Fights? Because PBC Fights on different channels so All SHO Fights are PBC Fights, but not all PBC Fights are SHO Fights?

MOST Showtime fights are PBC, but not all. Showtime also gets international fights from Eddie Hearn (Matchroom) in the UK. Hearn & Haymon frequently work together. But for the most part, almost all of the big Showtime cards are PBC. So Haymon's stable is getting a significant portion of that growing Showtime budget.

Meanwhile, Top Rank, Roc Nation, K2, Golden Boy, Main Events, etc are all having to fight over the shrinking and shrinking HBO budget. Golden Boy only has one fighter that matters. Main Events only has one fighter that matters. Roc Nation only has two fighters that matter. K2 only has two fighters that matter. So long term it's going to be difficult for these companies to survive Haymon's onslaught.

Top Rank is the only one with a real stable, thanks to being able to get a WBO belt for pretty much whoever they want. The problem though is now Top Rank has a million WBO champions, but nowhere to put them. HBO just doesn't have the budget to support all of TR's fighters.

It's going to be very difficult to stop Haymon from completely taking over major US boxing because once HBO exits the business, it's game over.

[original zero]

Jacobs technically might have been considered an A-side within PBC (after the quillin fight), but his events were financial losers for Haymon, so Haymon risks NOTHING letting Jacobs fight off-PBC.

As a matter of fact, I suspect that GGG-Jacobs was the only Jacobs fight that Haymon ever turned a profit on.....

But more importantly, MW was a division Haymon had little control over and little investment in. GGG had all the belts, Haymon's guys were controlling all the belts at 154 with no incentive to really move up until GGG was out of the way.

Okay, Jacobs lost. Haymon's mission isn't really harmed at all. But had Jacobs pulled off the upset, as a mandatory with NO REMATCH CLAUSE, it's a HUGE swing of power in Haymon's direction. Would have been absolutely devastating to HBO. So the risk vs reward calculation made total sense to do that fight. HBO risking one of their major pieces while Haymon risks essentially nothing.

[OnePunch]

I dont know why its so hard for some people to understand that PBC, Golden Boy, Top Rank, etc, are all COMPETITORS. It serves no purpose for Golden Boy to send its top guys to fight on PBC. And it serves no purpose for say Haymon to let Thurman go fight Bradley on a Top Rank card. These people are competitors for ****s sake. Sure, they might send their "B" and "C" guys across enemy lines if the price is right, but their a-listers??? Not likely.....

They will make fights when it suits their interests, and they wont make fights when it doesnt. Its pretty simple stuff. Its rather naive to think that they will do things counter to their own interests just for "the good of the sport"......

[al-Xander]

Schaefer made the first move when he took all GBP fighters with him because he was unhappy about not getting the date (Canelo vs Lopez) he wanted.

You cannot ban people who already defected. It's silly.

The so-called HBO ban should be taken as retaliatory measure which simply means you can't come back.

It's like chicken and egg thing or putting the cart ahead of the horse. It's ****** to say HBO banned them when Schaefer and Haymon were the ones who moved out with their fighters, who HBO already built up spending huge time and money with very little profit.

[al-Xander]

This is a trend I'm noticing. These promoters will use PBC B-side fighters to fight their A-side's but they aren't even sending their B-sides to fight PBC A-side's. There is no reason Linares shouldn't be fighting Garcia. Or Bradley & Vargas should be out this long when they could be fighting PBC welterweights.

Any reason why Haymon can't make Swift vs Broner, Swift vs Porter, etc., Lara vs Andrade, Lara vs Williams, Lara vs Charlo, Broner vs Thurman, Broner vs Peterson, etc?

Why aren't you criticizing Haymon for this?

Haymon can even make Mikey vs Broner if he wants to. Or Easter vs Mikey, etc. All these PBC fighters would have fought each other long time ago if they're with Arum. Agree?

Funny part is these are the same people who were dancing in the street lauding Mikey's move when he was leaving Arum. Now they want Arum to give him Loma, or Oscar's Linares. Aaargh! Turned out that such move would only make Mikey dormant as everyone else in the PBC camp.

[Finito2K]

Idgaf what you call BS on. It's the truth. Ortiz asked to fight on PBC & Golden Boy wouldn't let him. Go tell the judge who cited that as one of the reasons for throwing out the case that you're calling BS. Your opinion doesn't matter when it conflicts with the facts.

I never gave you my opinion. I simply corrected you with a factual account of the Golden Boy/Luis Ortiz split. Even backed it up with a link.

Surely there must be a link to this record you speak of. At least some some of newslink to back it up, right?

Seriously, everything out there seems to indicate that Ortiz and Golden Boy settled this issue amicably.

Go tell the judge who cited that as one of the reasons for throwing out the case that you're calling BS. Your opinion doesn't matter when it conflicts with the facts.

You're talking about Haymon's summary judgement over Golden Boy's lawsuit. It never mentions Ortiz wanting to fight Wilder.

Here's what the court record says:

"In fact, the evidence suggests that it is Golden Boy, not Defendants, that has refused to deal with the Haymon En****** during the pendency of this lawsuit. Indeed, in May 2015, Robert Diaz (Golden Boy’s matchmaker) received a suggestion from the manager of then Golden Boy-promoted heavyweight, Luis Ortiz, to try to place Mr. Ortiz in a bout that is featured within a PBC show. Mr. Diaz responded, “Are you serious? You do know we have sued Haymon right?”

http://www.boxingscene.com/golden-bo...cision--113027

In other words, the lawsuit was thrown out because Golden Boy claims that Haymon was tying up the market were bull****.

He claimed Haymon prevented fighters from working with Golden Boy, when in fact Haymon freely let his fighters perform on GBP cards. Furthermore, by refusing the idea of Ortiz fighting on PBC, Golden Boy demonstrated that they were simply unwilling to work with Haymon unless it was in their best interest.

Nowhere in this transcript does it ever say that Luis Ortiz wanted to fight Wilder.

There's your facts. Now go get your shine box.

[Motorcity Cobra]

I never gave you my opinion. I simply corrected you with a factual account of the Golden Boy/Luis Ortiz split. Even backed it up with a link.

Surely there must be a link to this record you speak of. At least some some of newslink to back it up, right?

Seriously, everything out there seems to indicate that Ortiz and Golden Boy settled this issue amicably.



You're talking about Haymon's summary judgement over Golden Boy's lawsuit. It never mentions Ortiz wanting to fight Wilder.

Here's what the court record says:

"In fact, the evidence suggests that it is Golden Boy, not Defendants, that has refused to deal with the Haymon En****** during the pendency of this lawsuit. Indeed, in May 2015, Robert Diaz (Golden Boy’s matchmaker) received a suggestion from the manager of then Golden Boy-promoted heavyweight, Luis Ortiz, to try to place Mr. Ortiz in a bout that is featured within a PBC show. Mr. Diaz responded, “Are you serious? You do know we have sued Haymon right?”

http://www.boxingscene.com/golden-bo...cision--113027

In other words, the lawsuit was thrown out because Golden Boy claims that Haymon was tying up the market were bull****.

He claimed Haymon prevented fighters from working with Golden Boy, when in fact Haymon freely let his fighters perform on GBP cards. Furthermore, by refusing the idea of Ortiz fighting on PBC, Golden Boy demonstrated that they were simply unwilling to work with Haymon unless it was in their best interest.

Nowhere in this transcript does it ever say that Luis Ortiz wanted to fight Wilder.

There's your facts. Now go get your shine box.

Saying you call BS on Golden Boy not letting Ortiz fight on a PBC card is your opinion and a wrong one at that. The judge mentioned when he tossed that sham lawsuit out of court. Your opinion or what you call BS on means absolutely nothing.

And I didn't read nothing you wrote because when you start out with a lie I'm not interested in nothing else you have to say

[Motorcity Cobra]

I think it's mostly due to the well drying up. If the blanket promoters that Haymon would use to run a show were getting a flat check, due to the finances drying up that flat check may be smaller, possibly to the point that the blanket promoter says 'no thank you'.

So I don't think it's a case of promoters freeing out PBC, I just think the well dried up and the market may have turned for the worse for them. Throwing too much money around has caused waves in market value and it may have proven to be a double edged sword for PBC.

I dont know why its so hard for some people to understand that PBC, Golden Boy, Top Rank, etc, are all COMPETITORS. It serves no purpose for Golden Boy to send its top guys to fight on PBC. And it serves no purpose for say Haymon to let Thurman go fight Bradley on a Top Rank card. These people are competitors for ****s sake. Sure, they might send their "B" and "C" guys across enemy lines if the price is right, but their a-listers??? Not likely.....

They will make fights when it suits their interests, and they wont make fights when it doesnt. Its pretty simple stuff. Its rather naive to think that they will do things counter to their own interests just for "the good of the sport"......

I understand both of you but my question is with a guy like Linares. HBO isn't buying his fights. Showtime bought his last fight to build a Linares-Garcia showdown. Showtime is ready to throw money at a Garcia opponent and gave him a date after his last fight. Linares would make more money fighting Garcia than going back overseas fighting Flanagan. You can make good money overseas if you're a hot name in the U.S. like GGG, Spence, Davis. But if you're forced to go over there because you aren't buzzing over here (like Linares) you aren't going to make more money than you'd make on a Showtime main even with Garcia.

You think Golden Boy would make more money off of Linares fighting Flanagan than they would fighting in SoCal on a showtime main even?

[OnePunch]

I understand both of you but my question is with a guy like Linares. HBO isn't buying his fights. Showtime bought his last fight to build a Linares-Garcia showdown. Showtime is ready to throw money at a Garcia opponent and gave him a date after his last fight. Linares would make more money fighting Garcia than going back overseas fighting Flanagan. You can make good money overseas if you're a hot name in the U.S. like GGG, Spence, Davis. But if you're forced to go over there because you aren't buzzing over here (like Linares) you aren't going to make more money than you'd make on a Showtime main even with Garcia.

You think Golden Boy would make more money off of Linares fighting Flanagan than they would fighting in SoCal on a showtime main even?

That is your opinion, nothing more. You havent the slightest idea what sort of offers, if any, that Haymon has given Golden Boy for a Garcia-Linares tilt.