Prime Iron Mike versus Joshua or Wilder today

[Elroy The Great]

'Skills' are a subjective assessment. How do I quantify which boxer qualifies as a 'bum' according to your definition? How do I calculate which boxer is lacking in 'skills' enough to be qualified as a 'bum'?

My definition of the term 'bum' (below usable measure) is as follows:

A boxer who has less than 12 fights in his whole career or has lost 25% (or more) of fights of his WinLossCareerRecord.

Any mention of me calling a boxer a 'bum' has to fulfill that definition / criteria. I don't start mindlessly calling any random boxer a 'bum', only because they are slightly less 'skilled'.

lets end this yes/no cycle of repetition.....

i feel mike was way overrated and his fans are insane. ill assume you feel the opposite way ?

i had fun

[Elroy The Great]

I'm not a ******, you are. I win.

ok

[Mr Objecitivity]

lets end this yes/no cycle of repetition.....

i feel mike was way overrated and his fans are insane. ill assume you feel the opposite way ?

i had fun

You can subjectively 'feel' or think whatever you like. You're to entitled to it. Same applies to me as well. However, I'm arguing from an objective standpoint and from an objective standpoint, Mike Tyson isn't and can't be overrated.

Until you can find any other boxer who at the very least equaled Mike Tyson's heavyweight accomplishments whilst being the same size as him, then he continues to remain a boxer that isn't and can't be called 'overrated'.

[alexguiness]

Mike eats Wilder alive, and does the same thing to 'The humble one' he did to Bruno.

[robertzimmerman]

thats what makes for good debates. i see wilders reach and height to offset mikes hand speed. mike is very explosive but also very predictable in his movements on his way in. mike was able to get away with this because his early opponents were too scared to trade with him.

they both have power. also, id see wilder tying mike up whenever he tried to get in close.

on top of that, we know mikes heart isnt as dependable as his chin when things get rough. imho, mike would have to ko wilder to win. i wouldnt see that happening.

How would Wilder have timed Mike with his squat, bob and weave style?

How was Mike predictable?

Why couldn't you see Mike knocking him out?

Wilder is uncoordinated and has average skills. He's looked bad against B and C class HW's.

[robertzimmerman]

shot tucker (was merely ok in his prime)
spinks (see tucker. it was spinks payout fight)
berbick was an absolute joke
holmes himself said he only took the fight because of the money. over a year off and his 1st fight back is prime tyson ?!?!?!? PURE cash grab.
bruno, meh. all muscle, NO GAME PLAN.
pink was ok but he rather did his crack than be a serious champ.
razor was also ok. probably his ''best'' wins. then again, morrison was able to end him too.

after looking at these opponents, youre right. as horrible as i think tysons opponents were WHEN HE FOUGHT THEM, wilders are worse. i was hoping bermane was the goods but we all saw how that went.

i would say each would kill the others opponents.

Tucker was neither shot or merely an okay HW. What on earth are you talking about?

Michael Spinks also wasn't a shot or average HW.

Berbick obviously wasn't a great HW, but how was he a joke? He was a decent HW. He beat Thomas and Page amongst others.

How can you say that they'd both have killed each other's opponents?

What evidence is there to put forward a theory that Wilder would have killed those guys? There isn't any. None whatsoever.

[robertzimmerman]

Mike Tyson was far too small of a heavyweight to be anything more than a nuisance to SKILLED super heavyweights (heavyweights above 6 foot 3 and significantly above 230 pounds).

Not sure if you knew this, but Mike Tyson's knockout percentage dropped significantly as his opponents became heavier and bigger. Even against bummy and journeymen opponents, but more so skilled opponents. The same punches that were knocking out lighter bums cold like Marvis Frazier were at best, tickling or itching much heavier bummy or journeymen opponents like Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride. Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride were both able to nearly walk through Mike Tyson's hardest, most powerful flush landed punches whilst showing minimal effects.

This proves Mike Tyson lacked the physical strength and abilities to generate the punching power required to KO opponents of such size. I guess that was Mike Tyson's limit / plateau (which is still higher than any other heavyweight boxer in history that was Mike Tyson's size). Mike Tyson hands / fists were too small, his body was overall too small, his body was too fragile and weak to be able to KO opponents after they reached a specific size. There's a reason why Mike Tyson failed to KO Danny Williams with his hardest punches and instead, ended up injuring himself. It's because his body was just too weak and fragile to generate the punching power required to KO someone of Danny William's or Kevin Mcbride's size. Whilst trying his absolute best to throw and land his hardest punches, Mike Tyson's fragile and weak body just gave up on him and he ended up injuring himself instead of knocking out Danny Williams.

Keep in mind, I've just mentioned BIG bummy opponents that Mike Tyson struggled to KO. It'd become even worse for Mike Tyson if I mention BIG + SKILLED opponents. Not only would he struggle to KO such opponents, he would also struggle to be anything more than a nuisance. I can't see any version of Mike Tyson having any success against either Klitschko brother and a peak Lennox Lewis. I can't honestly imagine Mike Tyson even having the ability to score to KO those guys even if he did land his hardest punch. Just the way I see it!

Mike Tyson's power wasn't that GREAT against much heavier opponents. Even against smaller opponents, it wasn't just his power but his offensive skills that allowed him to score those knockouts. However, his offensive skills became redundant in terms of scoring knockouts as his opponents became much heavier and bigger. That's because he simply lacked the power to KO such opponents, even though he had the offensive skills to get into positions to consistently land his hardest punches.

Even worse, his skills and power became almost moot against skilled + bigger opponents like Lennox Lewis because not only was his power redundant, but so was his offensive skills and abilities to even get himself into positions to land his power punches in the first place. As a smaller boxer, Mike Tyson was usually much more skilled than heavier opponents when he was young so he could make up for his lack of size against those heavier unskilled opponents using his superior skills. However, against opponents like Lennox Lewis or Klitschkos who are arguably just as skilled, Mike Tyson simply isn't able to overcome his lack of size using his skills because his skills aren't that much higher, if higher at all than those guys.

What a terrible post.

It's so bad, I wouldn't even know where to start.

Why on earth have you mentioned Lewis, Williams and McBride?

I guarantee you that Danny Williams would tell you to your face that he'd have been lucky to have seen the 2nd round against the best versions of Mike.

Your stats are useless. Completely irrelevant.

[robertzimmerman]

Do you realize how small a heavyweight Mike Tyson was? He would probably be stomped on by these giants and be squashed like a bug. They would be looking down on Mike Tyson like an irrelevant insect.

Mike Tyson was the greatest heavyweight in history P4P and inch for inch (relative to his own size). However, he poses very little threat to the elite super heavyweights.

You're on a thread looking at hypothetical fights against Joshua and Wilder.

Joshua looks got be the goods, but he still has a lot to prove.

Wilder has proven beyond doubt that he isn't an elite fighter. He has crazy power, but he is uncoordinated and has struggled with B and C class HW's.

An irrelevant insect?

Nobody could be this dumb, so I'm going to just assume that you're trolling.

[Elroy The Great]

How would Wilder have timed Mike with his squat, bob and weave style?

How was Mike predictable?

Why couldn't you see Mike knocking him out?

Wilder is uncoordinated and has average skills. He's looked bad against B and C class HW's.

you answered your own question. mikes bob and ''weave'' style was easily timed. a guy just needed courage to pounce on it.

hands under chin, bob left, bob right, attack, repeat. wilder isnt a dummy. his resume is no worse t

mike also looked bad vs some of his taller opponents (green being one of them).

its just my opinion. there are no ''wrong'' picks when it comes to hypothetical matches. just which pock makes the most sense.

[robertzimmerman]

tyson was eating in that clip. sure, he dipped some but many landed.

mike 5'10'' 71 r

razor 6'3'' 82 r 2x
the truth 6'4'' 80+ r
holmes same as razor
bruno same as razor
biggs 6'5'' 80+ r
bonecrusher same as bruno
rebalta same as biggs
on and on...

not once did anyone roll out ''i cant believe mike beat up those giant SUPER HWs !!!!!!!''

holy 6'1'' 78'' r no comp.

once he faced a real threat, tyson is a midget

You need to find another thread.