Jack Dempsey vs Today's Heavyweights

[Kigali]

Fury is overly tall at 6'9 , Cunninham is 6'3 ,just the right conditions of height to make that happen . For that style to make it the norm one has to be fast which isnt going to be anyone over 230 . Either way punching up is not a bob and weave style its just punching up to a 6'9 giant that was standing flat footed . Chisora is a bob and weave style over 230 and looks out of sync ,Fury pummeled him.A HW under 6'2 isnt going far today.

[Fury4daWIN]

That's a paradox man.

Jack did 7 miles of roadwork each day and tons of sparring, bag work, etc. It would be very hard to maintain a body fat above 10% with all that cardio.

It would be very hard to fight with a body fat percentage lower than 10% is what I'm getting at. We need a level of fat to function, and anything in the single digits isn't going to cut it.

[robertzimmerman]

F l i c k e r,

You didn't even know Jack's natural weight. I never claimed to know it. You claimed he was 200+ like Froch with no definitive numbers.

Give it up man.

You can't get out of the hole you've dug for yourself.

You have looked at their height, looked at their reach, noted that Carl weighs 200 pounds when not training, and have then come to the bizarre conclusion that Jack could also have been a SMW like Carl.

Now on what planet could Jack have weighed in at 168 pounds?


No, without doing research, I couldn't quote Jack's specific numbers. But I knew he used to put a lot of weight on, especially towards the end of his career.

I judged from images, which the internet has more than the two that I provided. That he doesn't realistically cut much weight. Look at any pictures. He doesn't look much different from chilling to his in-ring pictures. Doesn't look flabby in any picture but doesn't look like he is in a natural bodybuilding show either. Unlike modern day boxers who may go from pudgy like Canelo, to looking like they are ready to step on stage in a bikini at weigh in.

Those images don't tell you anything unless you can put them into context.

Just because you can't find a picture where he's grossly out of shape, it doesn't mean that he wasn't. You've been informed that he was almost 240 pounds at one point.

You need weigh-in pictures, and pictures with dates for proper analysis.

The two photos you posted were years apart, and even then, you don't know when they were taken, and at what stage of camp he was at.

And you can't judge optimum weight by the weight Froch chose to fight at.

And why did he chose to fight at that weight?

Every fighter has an optimum weight.

Carl could cut down to 168 pounds, and then rehydrate and be as strong as possible at the weight.

Again, Jack could never have made 168 pounds.

He normally weighed between 185-195, yet you think he could have dropped another 15-20 pounds??


Look at Mojo's post, number 102.

He's ripped.


Here's another photo from the Willard fight:

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...act=mrc&uact=8

He weighed in for that fight at 187 pounds.

There's just no way he could have taken off another 20 plus pounds.

Although they were similar in height and reach, and they were both over 200 pounds when not active, their physiques were completely different.

He weights 202lbs. His words. Please tell me why he can't weigh 194lbs in-ring and have elite level conditioning?

His conditioning at that weight would be nowhere near his level of conditioning for his SMW fights. Because his body would be carrying more weight. The body has to work harder. It has to produce more oxygen.

Nathan Cleverley prides himself on his fitness. He used to train with Joe Calzaghe in the Welsh mountains from a young age. His style is based around his work rate/ fitness.

Did you see his fight with Bellew at CW?

He was absolutely exhausted, because the extra weight just sapped his strength.

People thought that he'd injured his hand, because he was pressed up against the ropes and hardly threw it. But it was because he was devoid of energy.

Does he have some muscle development *********** that only you know about? Is he not an elite athlete? Does he have some weight disorder? Can he not exercise?

As above.

There is nothing you can say to claim that he can not be in shape at LHW, CW, or HW.

In shape compared to the average guy, but not to his previous levels of conditioning.

This does not mean that he will win in any of those weight classes. He does NOT have any real advantages against any other HW if he fights at those weights. That's a losing situation. Since the idea of the game is to NOT lose. Why would he do that?

Again, every fighter has an OPTIMUM weight.

Carl's height and reach were bigger than a lot of LHW's, yet he never considered fighting there. Because he could cut to 168, and be at his strongest come fight night.

How are the similar? Okay. Jack was a great all-round boxer but known for swarming. Froch despite having an awkward look. Is a solid all-round boxer but known for swarming. The difference. Like I stated. Is Froch is there to be hit, unlike Jack. This doesn't mean Froch is easily tagged. It just means he isn't as refined as Jack. Comparing styles isn't even objective anyways. So you don't think they are similar. So what?

The only similarities they have is that they were both boxers with similar height and reach.

Carl was a tough SMW who possessed a good jab. He had good skills, good power, a great chin, and a lot of heart.

Jack was a HW with a bob and weave style, who possessed great speed and explosive knockout power.

Do you understand all of this? Can you comprehend?

Do you understand that although they were similar in terms of height and reach, they were both VERY DIFFERENT fighters?

Do you understand that Jack could never have made 168 pounds?

Do you understand that labelling Froch as: 'The modern day Dempsey' is absolutely ridiculous?

[robertzimmerman]

Fury.

Dempsey beats everyone else at HW right now, but Fury is champion in any era.

How is Tyson Fury faster?

[robertzimmerman]

Had Dempsey ever faced guys big as Wilder, Wlad Klitschko, Joshua? I don`t wanna even mention Fury..

Dempsey would be a dwarf in division nowadays. He would end like Mormeck or Leapai.

Size can be overcome by skills and style.

Mike Tyson was smaller than Jack Dempsey.

[Fury4daWIN]

Do you understand that Jack could never have made 168 pounds?

Do you understand that labelling Froch as: 'The modern day Dempsey' is absolutely ridiculous?

Kovalev is a better analogy to Dempsey than Froch is. Dempsey, with the help of today's cutting drugs, could conceivably have dropped ten pounds of water weight to make the weigh in and rehydrated up to 185, same as Kovalev and most LHWs today.

[Fury4daWIN]

How is Tyson Fury faster?

Dempsey wasn't exceptionally fast, even for a smaller man. He also used to telegraph his shots quite a bit. He was winding up like Popeye in stretches of the Willard fight.

[robertzimmerman]

StudentOfDaGame,

He would get stopped in the first three rounds in today's HW division because he was SIMPLY too small. Only on Boxing Scene do people not want to take into account physical limitations in the Heavyweight division. We're not talking about straw weight,we're talking about prime Wlad left hook and Joshuas straight right that would stop 100% of the pre-war heavies.

If you really believe the above, then you ought to change your username to something more appropriate.

Oh, he was too small?

What about Mike Tyson?

Mike was shorter than Jack in terms of height and reach. Yet he destroyed guys much bigger due to his skills, speed and power.

Jack wouldn't beat every HW today, but he could certainly have beaten a good number of them.

Sure, if a guy like Joshua had landed flush, it would have been all over. But would he have had the opportunity? Why is it inconceivable that Jack couldn't have gotten inside?

Until we see more of the likes of Joshua, I'd have put money on a guy like Mike to have taken him out.

Saying that Jack wouldn't last 3 rounds with today's guys is the height of ignorance.

Was it not you complaining that these Super HWs are boring and fight like fighters from the 1972 Olympics, similar to a game of tag?. In your opinion do you really think 6 ft 1 Dempsey would go past 2 rounds with Joshua?. It would be a forgone conclusion and I guarantee you Joshua would be 1/200 with bookmakers outright.

More nonsense.

Absolutely pathetic.

Dempsey couldn't have gone 2 rounds with Joshua?

Oh my.

Floyd Mayweather is better than Sugar Ray Robinson in the skills department and only those who are brainwashed by nostalgia would refute my claims. Why do all fighters copy Sugar Ray

No.

Ray was the perfect fighter in his prime, both offensively and defensively.

And I'll lay your bet with twice your stake to prove how confident I am that Dempsey would get stopped by any of today's competent super HWs.

That's because you're obsessed with size.

[robertzimmerman]

You can also read his book on boxing theory on line, here is the link just download:

http://bmsi.ru/issueview/50fc5c79-9b...20fighting.pdf

Like Bruce Lee Jack wrote extensively on theory. Like Lee he became concerned because fighters at the time were not innovating and using proper technical rigor. For Lee this had to do with tradition...to sum it up: "if your sensay say to jump off ruuf, do you jump off ruuf?" With Dempsey it had to do with guys using "mufflers" (gloves) and hitting with no force.

The old way of fighting was by its nature divided into defensive and offensive movements and there was a tendency for guys to stay on the back leg exclusively. Dempsey created a distance, and a vocabulary that was for the puncher exclusively, and not defensive in nature. This later led to guys like Blackburn developing the technically excellent Louis etc. But Dempsey's bob and weave style, the ability to slip punches, where as guys like Jack Johnson would catch the punches on the gloves, is still the boxing vocabulary of the puncher.

Dempsey would look like Tyson if he fought today. he would have to make some accomodations because of the gloves, and this might well involve putting on some more weight because of the size of the gloves.

Great post mate.

Thank you so much.

It was a pleasure to read.

Thanks for the link.

[robertzimmerman]

Dempsey would probably lose to GGG, thats how bad technically he was

Really?

Oh dear.