Jack Dempsey vs Today's Heavyweights

[VG_Addict]

Ray Arcel says Dempsey would have beaten Ali (but not Louis). Emanuel Steward said Dempsey was overrated and was more of a sensation than a truly great fighter. I think it's fair to say that there's room for disagreement on this matter.

Ali would beat Dempsey. He's too big and fast for him.

[juggernaut666]

Steward was overrated.

You couldn't pull back with your hands down against Dempsey....or that beast in your Avi.

EMMANUEL STEWARD was OVERRATED ??????


"Top fighters from around the world ventured to the Kronk Gym to seek Steward’s services. Hall of famers Lennox Lewis, Mike McCallum, Julio Cesar Chavez and Jeff Fenech are among those fighters.

Steward trained six heavyweight champs/titleholders: Lewis, current champ Wladimir Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Moorer, Oliver McCall and Tony Tucker.

He trained McCall, regarded as little more than a journeyman at the time, to upset then-WBC beltholder Lewis in 1994. He then took over training duties with Lewis, who he helped remake into the undisputed champ during the second half of the 1990s.

He also revamped the career of Klitschko after the talented Ukrainian, then the WBO beltholder, was knocked out by Lamon Brewster in 2004. Over the second half of the 2000s, Steward guided Klitschko to unified titles and THE RING championship.

He trained Holyfield for his championship-regaining rematch with Rid**** Bowe, the only fight of their trilogy that Holyfield won.

Other fighters he “resurrected” include British light heavyweight Dennis Andries, who lost his WBC title to Hearns in 1987, but twice regained that belt under Steward’s training; Kermit Cintron, who won the IBF welterweight title with Steward after suffering his first loss to Antonio Margarito; and Miguel Cotto, who won the WBA 154-pound belt with Steward in 2010 after losing to Manny Pacquiao.

Steward trained too many “stars” of the sport, including Oscar De La Hoya and Naseem Hamed, to mention. Even the stars who did not train with Steward in the professional ranks revere the man. "

And Hearns would have won against SRL had he not secretly been taking bad advice for preperations from someone else !


I hate resonding to your posts bc they are nauseating and ****** ALL the time !

[robertzimmerman]

Am surprised this is still being debated.

He is simply too small for the super freak heavyweights, nothing more, nothing less.

I've heard it all before.


I've seen Mike Tyson's career in it's entirety.

I've seen Corrie Sanders beat Wlad.

I've seen Ray Mercer give Lennox a hell of a close fight.

I've seen Chagaev and a faded Evander beat Valuev.


Wilder has done nothing yet.

Zero.


Saying that Dempsey couldn't have won because he was too small, just doesn't cut it.

[robertzimmerman]

How?

Maybe genetics, dedication, you can also train to improve speed.

He isn't faster than Dempsey.

[robertzimmerman]

everything improves. seriously, go back and watch some of those way back when fights. look at how clumsy and wild most of those fights are. how much holding is going on. look at those fights with unbiased eyes.

Boxing has improved from the M.O.Q. but it doesn't keep progressing every decade, and sports science and technology can only help a guy so much.

It's not a given that today's best HW's would have beaten everyone from the past.

[VG_Addict]

The fact is Dempsey would be too small to compete in today's HW division.

[Ray Corso]

"Steward was overrated"................

There are a lot of ****** statements on this forum that make me cringe but this quote is at the top of the list.
I knew Manny fairly well and my club fought against Kronk kids in Nationals for years and a few opposing corners in the pros also.
He was a man of integrity and was one of the most successful trainers, mentors and corner advice men EVER in the sport!

Any person who makes a statement like this obviously knows NOTHING about boxing!

Ray Corso

[Madison Boxing]

Boxing has improved from the M.O.Q. but it doesn't keep progressing every decade, and sports science and technology can only help a guy so much.

It's not a given that today's best HW's would have beaten everyone from the past.

are you still persisting with this argument when kigali is the only person agreeing with you, you should have realised you were wrong

[robertzimmerman]

WTF Huck!,

Dempsey fought at heavyweight when the average size of top heavies was a lot less than it is today, and there was no interim divisions for men of Dempsey's size. Billy Conn also technically fought at heavyweight, but would you give him a chance against someone like Big George?

He still fought at HW and beat much bigger men.

No, I wouldn't have chosen Billy over George.

Dempsey has the same chance at heavyweight that I'd give to the smaller cruiserweight or larger light heavyweights today. He might win against a certain level of competition, but he'd come up short against the best in the division, since by and large the best in the division not only have a sizeable height, reach and weight advantage, but also have the skills to use it.

That assessment is silly.

You'd have to look at each individual fighter, case by case, looking at their skills and their attributes.

Why would Dempsey only have had the same chance at HW today, as today's biggest LHW's?

Today's LHW's don't possess the power he had, and they don't possess his bob and weave style that got him inside, along with his speed and pressure.

Guys like Kovalev and Stevenson would do as well at HW because they'd be too static in comparison.

They're also all on steroids, which is something his larger foes never had the opportunity to use.

For the record though, I'd actually give him a chance against Wilder, who's so inept and clumsy that I wouldn't be surprised to see him take a nap. But Dempsey also has the strong possibility of getting put to sleep himself, and in a bad way.

Exactly. And isn't Wilder classed as one of today's top HW's?

Yes, of course Wilder could also have put him to sleep. That goes without saying. But Dempsey would have had a chance. A bigger chance than Kovalev and Stevenson. I think on a P4P basis, Kovalev is clearly a better fighter than Wilder. But I'd never back him to beat Wilder in a H2H fight. Because again: it all comes down to style. It's no good just looking at who's comparable to Dempsey in terms of size.

[mlac]

robertzimmerman

jesus man...you still going?

i gave up 20 pages ago