Jack Dempsey vs Today's Heavyweights

[juggernaut666]

Was saying this to Dr Rumack the other day. Serious lack of bobbing and weaving at HW these days.

Definitely a style that needs bringing back.

Bobbing and weaving requires faster reflexes and is a technique for shorter fighters . Taller guys make them an easier target if they bend at the waste and lower their heads . This is why the big men dont usually take this approach . Example ,Joshua uses a catch /side to side movement with limited bending for that reason bc he can block and still counter quickly while keeping more distance .

[Tom Cruise]

Bobbing and weaving requires faster reflexes and is a technique for shorter fighters . Taller guys make them an easier target if they bend at the waste and lower their heads . This is why the big men dont usually take this approach . Example ,Joshua uses a catch /side to side movement with limited bending for that reason bc he can block and still counter quickly while keeping more distance .

Yeah i get that, but there doesnt seem to be the shorter stocky guys at hw these days.

I wouldnt say its a symptom of the SHW era either because if outfighters have gotten bigger, so could pressure fighters. Nothing to stop 6'1"/ 6'2" stocky guys developing that style in the modern hw boxing. The fighter i was talking about with Rumack was Mahai Nistor, who is 6ft tall and fights in that style in the ams. Good fighter, big puncher. Would be very interested to see him turn pro

The shots that have hurt and dropped Fury started low and ended high. Very difficult to see the shots coming from that trajectory. There is definitely a place for that style in modern HW boxing

[JakeTheBoxer]

Dempsey was walking around with about 190, right? That was his fight weight. Hard to believe, he was a real heavy puncher.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

B level competition? Isaac Chilemba would make anybody look bad from that era solely because of SKILL & TECHNIQUE. Isaac would have been a GOD those days. Have you actually watched the footage of those old fighters?. Usyk made mince meat of Isaac.

300 fight careers? Jack Dempsey had fights on par with Wladimir & B hop, give or take a few. This what you old crowd do, you just make up garbage and repeat mythological stories bandied about by the outdated closed press who made these fighters out to be something they're not.
Firpo and Willard didn't have 80 fights between them. These were the super HWs Dempsey dispatched. You have the audacity to compare these guys to the likes of Wladimir and Lewis, Gold medalist before becoming unified champions.

Don't just throw around that 300 fight bullcrap especially when debating with me mate that's unfounded rubbish. You actually think a 1915-1930 HW has a chance in hell these days?. Boxing hardcore are panning out to be very fickle when you scratch the surface.

Isaac Chilemba never stepped in the ring with Usyk. You are thinking of the Ukrainian prospect that he quit against and he wasn't made "mince meat".

Dempsey had well over 100 fights. Somewhere in the range of 130-150. Most of them unreported as most older records are.

I was not comparing them in terms of skill but in terms of size. Don't get that confused. You said that the reason he loses is because of strength and size. Not skill. What does Wlad pose? A jab and hold? Dempsey would beat his guts out of his back. Body punching was emphasized a lot more back then than it is today. A lost art really.

I can see you aren't that familiar with the generation in question so I won't go too far into depth about them.

Plenty of fighters had fights in the 200-300 range. Ever heard of Jack Blackburn? Joe Gans? Sam Langford? Harry Greb? All of these guys had fights well into the 200s and 300s. Langford had at least 319 documented fights.

The only fighters I even consider how they would do in other eras are those that were great/elite in their own.

Boxrec doesn't give you the full story.

[Fury4daWIN]

It's called studying the sport.

If you haven't seen enough of the old school fighters, what makes you think the new generation guys would beat them? It works both ways.

Common sense.

Sergei Kovalev is one of the hardest punching and most vicious LHWs around, a man who grew up in comparable surroundings to Dempsey, a natural 185 pounder with almost identical physical dimensions to Dempsey and a similar dedication to physical fitness.

Do you think he stands a chance at heavyweight?

I'd pick him to KO someone like Gary Cornish, especially if you give him tiny gloves like the type Dempsey wore, but someone like Wlad? Really?

Dempsey wasn't a superman, and nothing on film should ever lead you to think that. So there's no reason to suspect that he'd fare any better than Kovalev would, especially when you factor in modern rules and equipment.

His beating Fred Fulton, a beanpole with no fight footage on him aids the argument in his favour not one jot. Neither does his beating of Firpo, a man who wasn't even that large by today's standards, and one who literally looks cruder than many MMA fighters today.

[juggernaut666]

Yeah i get that, but there doesnt seem to be the shorter stocky guys at hw these days.

I wouldnt say its a symptom of the SHW era either because if outfighters have gotten bigger, so could pressure fighters. Nothing to stop 6'1"/ 6'2" stocky guys developing that style in the modern hw boxing. The fighter i was talking about with Rumack was Mahai Nistor, who is 6ft tall and fights in that style in the ams. Good fighter, big puncher. Would be very interested to see him turn pro

The shots that have hurt and dropped Fury started low and ended high. Very difficult to see the shots coming from that trajectory. There is definitely a place for that style in modern HW boxing

Fury is overly tall at 6'9 , Cunninham is 6'3 ,just the right conditions of height to make that happen . For that style to make it the norm one has to be fast which isnt going to be anyone over 230 . Either way punching up is not a bob and weave style its just punching up to a 6'9 giant that was standing flat footed . Chisora is a bob and weave style over 230 and looks out of sync ,Fury pummeled him.A HW under 6'2 isnt going far today.

[ShoulderRoll]

"the cars and technology in the 30s-50s were supposed to be the best that ever were. we know thats not the case"......

Tell me one technical aspect in boxing that's been established after 1932.
What new methods have been instituted?

Ray

Good Point



The Bob and Weave style has disappeared...that's why we're left with a **** heavyweight division loaded with big goofy robots.

Great points from both of you.

Green K will be given when I am able to again.

[Fury4daWIN]

Bobbing and weaving would get you leaned on today. Referees are too lenient on fighters who use such tactics.

[Fury4daWIN]

Less than that probably the 8-10 range. The thing bad about black and white photos is they really are very unflattering physically most of the time.

People tend to mis-estimate body fat percentages. Jack was not sub 10% at any stage in his career. Likely around 12-14, which isn't bad at all and would be more beneficial to him as a boxer than a single digit percentage.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

People tend to mis-estimate body fat percentages. Jack was not sub 10% at any stage in his career. Likely around 12-14, which isn't bad at all and would be more beneficial to him as a boxer than a single digit percentage.

That's a paradox man.

Jack did 7 miles of roadwork each day and tons of sparring, bag work, etc. It would be very hard to maintain a body fat above 10% with all that cardio.