If I was Tom Loeffler

[HeroBando]

You avoided answering directly.

You didn't think the fight was going to happen. I doubt you will admit this because it makes my point.

So they were supposed to give up on the biggest fight in boxing cause they werent sure born ready dude would sack up? They got a belt and great exposure out of this famous duck

[kafkod]

You avoided answering directly.

You didn't think the fight was going to happen. I doubt you will admit this because it makes my point.

Are you saying the weight at which Cotto or Canelo would agree to fight GGG, or not, wasn't an issue? That it wasn't discussed and argued about ad nauseam here for months on end leading up to the fight?

How can I give a simple yes or no answer to a question about whether or not I thought either of them would fight GGG next with all that smoke blowing around and before I knew which of them was going to win?

And in any case, your point hinges on what Tom Loeffler and Abel Sanchez thought was going to happen, not me.

[The Big Dunn]

Are you saying the weight at which Cotto or Canelo would agree to fight GGG, or not, wasn't an issue? That it wasn't discussed and argued about ad nauseam here for months on end leading up to the fight?

How can I give a simple yes or no answer to a question about whether or not I thought either of them would fight GGG next with all that smoke blowing around and before I knew which of them was going to win?

And in any case, your point hinges on what Tom Loeffler and Abel Sanchez thought was going to happen, not me.

Kafkod, We both know you didn't think there was a real chance of either fighting GGG. Many of us shared the same skepticism and debated it. His position as mandatory wouldn't have been threatened by a Ward fight. Thats why I question what you wrote in the initial post.

[kafkod]

The WBO just mandated this morning at their convention that BJS has to make back to back mandatories. I'm guessing Alvarez will be one of those mandatories, though now it looks like Canelo might be fighting Cotto in a rematch first.

Otherwise, BJS might have to face Khurtsidze and Langford?

They would be the logical choices, being ranked 1 and 2, which means it probably won't be them.

I'd like to see Langford vs BJS though. I want to find out how good Tommy is, and whoever won, UK would still have a belt holder in the MW division.

[kafkod]

Kafkod, We both know you didn't think there was a real chance of either fighting GGG. Many of us shared the same skepticism and debated it. His position as mandatory wouldn't have been threatened by a Ward fight. Thats why I question what you wrote in the initial post.

Your question assumes good faith on the part of both Cotto and Canelo. That they both actually wanted to fight GGG next, after settling the issue between the 2 of them, and we all know that wasn't the case.

If he'd have signed a contract agreeing to fight Ward, at around the same time in 2016 as the winner of their fight would have been ready to fight him, that would have given the winner the perfect opportunity to wriggle out of the pledge they gave to the WBC.

"Ok, I want to fight GGG now, but look, Mr Sulaiman, he's getting ready to fight Ande Ward instead of me"

I presume GGG/Ward would have been a WBA title fight, in the SMW division, so even just signing a contract to do it might have enough for GGG to lose his WBA MW mando position, I'm not sure about that. But Cotto has the same promoter as Ward, remember.

[The Big Dunn]

Your question assumes good faith on the part of both Cotto and Canelo. That they both actually wanted to fight GGG next, after settling the issue between the 2 of them, and we all know that wasn't the case.

If he'd have signed a contract agreeing to fight Ward, at around the same time in 2016 as the winner of their fight would have been ready to fight him, that would have given the winner the perfect opportunity to wriggle out of the pledge they gave to the WBC.

"Ok, I want to fight GGG now, but look, Mr Sulaiman, he's getting ready to fight Ande Ward instead of me"

I presume GGG/Ward would have been a WBA title fight, in the SMW division, so even just signing a contract to do it might have enough for GGG to lose his WBA MW mando position, I'm not sure about that. But Cotto has the same promoter as Ward, remember.

They were going to get out of it either way, including paying GGG step aside money.

Look,I get your point, I'm just asking you to be honest about the real situation as you were in real time.

Can't we just be brutally honest-Cotto didn't want to fight GGG and risk the Canelo payday. GGG didn't want to fight ward to risk the cotto/canelo winner payday. ODH doesn't want to risk Canelo's marketability by having him lose to GGG (that would be 2 losses in his highest selling fights-not good especially in this era).

[kafkod]

They were going to get out of it either way, including paying GGG step aside money.

Look,I get your point, I'm just asking you to be honest about the real situation as you were in real time.

Can't we just be brutally honest-Cotto didn't want to fight GGG and risk the Canelo payday. GGG didn't want to fight ward to risk the cotto/canelo winner payday. ODH doesn't want to risk Canelo's marketability by having him lose to GGG (that would be 2 losses in his highest selling fights-not good especially in this era).

I agree with all of that.

But I still say that the comparison Varcarcel made between Canelo giving up a belt to avoid a mando, and GGG turning down an offer to move up for a fight at SMW, is ridiculous, and a man in his position should never have said something like that.

[kafkod]

The WBO just mandated this morning at their convention that BJS has to make back to back mandatories. I'm guessing Alvarez will be one of those mandatories, though now it looks like Canelo might be fighting Cotto in a rematch first.

Otherwise, BJS might have to face Khurtsidze and Langford?

I forgot to add .. I can't see the WBO having the nerve to instal Canelo as mandatory challenger to BJS without having him fight an eliminater first.

[Eastcoast]

I forgot to add .. I can't see the WBO having the nerve to instal Canelo as mandatory challenger to BJS without having him fight an eliminater first.

The WBO has a rule where if the champion from the lower division wants to fight the champion at the higher division, it can towards a mandatory, or something... That's how Demetrius Andrade nearly fought for the vacant MW title vs Korobov before he got cold feet.

Canelo's as the JMW champ is already in position, Pablo knows what he's doing.

[kafkod]

I forgot to add .. I can't see the WBO having the nerve to instal Canelo as mandatory challenger to BJS without having him fight an eliminater first.

The WBO has a rule where if the champion from the lower division wants to fight the champion at the higher division, it can towards a mandatory, or something... That's how Demetrius Andrade nearly fought for the vacant MW title vs Korobov before he got cold feet.

Canelo's as the JMW champ is already in position, Pablo knows what he's doing.

Yeah, I just read that Canelo gets that mandatory shot, if he wants it. But will he want it? BJS is not a good style match for Canelo, imo, so maybe he'll pull an Andrade.