Comments Thread For: Arum Reflects on Mayweather's IV, Pacquiao Shoulder Shot Scandal

[travestyny]

Owning by bringing up points that Floyd never said? Got it?


Its OK, you do not need to be the same person. BUT you both continually bring up points that were not mentioned by Floyd.

Dude, both of us have stated that we don't know his medical condition that called for the IV.

YOU on the other hand often say, "Floyd didn't have that" without any proof.

Am I right or am I wrong?

[ADP02]

Allow me to cut through this bull**** too. Of course I will admit that this may include speculation, but how else am I going to address your speculation?

1. How do you know his urine or his blood was not tested for hyponatremia? Do you know?

2. Hyponatremia is treated with normal saline through an IV infusion. I've already shown you this. He's not going to die from being given 750ml of IV fluid. He could have been treated to prevent the hyponatremia from progressing further.

3. You say it usually occurs right after an event like a marathon. Does your use of the word usually serve as an admission that it does not have to occur after a marathon, and does not even have to occur right after? Here, let me help you out.

Hyponatremia is not only for marathon runners:
In fact, a new consensus report in the British Journal of Sports Medicine found that many athletes are at risk of exercise-associated hyponatremia, which is an electrolyte imbalance that can be caused by drinking too much liquid. This can lead to nausea and vomiting, headaches, fatigue, and in serious cases, coma and even death.

While it was previously thought to only be a concern for long-distance athletes competing in events like marathons and Ironmans, the paper (which was funded by CrossFit, Inc.) concluded that many athletes are actually dangerously over-drinking during events as short as 10K races and even bikram yoga classes, Tamara Hew-Butler, PhD, lead author of the paper, explained to Health.
Because “it is impossible to recommend a generalized range especially during exercise when conditions are dynamic and changing, there is not one size that fits all!” she adds.
http://www.biggiesboxers.com/the-amo...-need-per-day/

What does NSAC say?:
One important factor is the environment that you exercise in:
The implications can be severe if not corrected, particularly in Nevada’s dry climate.

If the sweat is not rapidly evaporated such as in humid environments, higher sweating will occur to accomplish the cooling effects. Sweat contains a large amount of sodium and chloride (salt). If an athlete is already in a dehydrated state, the sweat concentrations of sodium and chloride are further elevated thereby increasing the body’s salt loss.

The most severe complication of dehydration or improper rehydration (water intoxication) is exercise-associated hyponatremia. This is defined by the blood’s level of sodium which is normally 135-140 mEq/L. In hyponatremia, the levels fall below 135 to present with symptoms of fatigue, muscle cramps, nausea, vomiting, headache, confusion, and disorientation. (1) If not properly treated, hyponatremia can result in severe condition known as central pontine myelinolysis (brain nerve damage).

It is difficult to recommend a specific amount of fluid replacement during competition since individual demands vary.
http://boxing.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/b...ation10-08.pdf

Hyponatremia need not occur right after an event:
The 2015 Third International Exercise-Associated Hyponatremia Consensus Development Conference defined exercise-associated hyponatremia (EAH) as hyponatremia (serum or plasma sodium below the normal reference range of the laboratory) occurring during or up to 24 hours after prolonged physical activity
https://www.uptodate.com/contents/ex...yponatremia#H9

Hyponatremia can be chronic:
Chronic hyponatremia- Hyponatremia developing over >48 h should be considered “chronic.” Most patients have chronic hyponatremia. The serum sodium concentration is usually above 120meq/L. Brain adapts itself to hyponatremia by generation of idiogenic osmoles. This is a protective mechanism that reduces the degree of cerebral edema; it begins on the first day and is complete within several days. Hence in chronic hyponatremia patients may appear asymptomatic. Mild hyponatremia is characterized by gastrointestinal tract symptoms nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite. Sometimes, subtle neurologic abnormalities may be present when the serum sodium is between 120 and 130 meq/L.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4192979/

Unable to Urinate?
The symptoms of hyponatremia include bloating, a feeling of fullness in your stomach, nausea, incoherence and disorientation. You may be unable to take in any more water, and also unable to urinate: these are warning signs to get to the medical tent and ask for help.
http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/6/6_1/1179.shtml


Dark Urine? Excessive sweating? Diarrhea? Hot Environment? Unable to urine? It’s all here.
Inadequate volume (hypovolemic) hyponatremia
The amount of water in the body is too low as can occur in dehydration. The anti-diuretic hormone is stimulated, causing the kidneys to make very concentrated urine and hold onto water. This may be seen with excessive sweating and exercising in a hot environment. It can also occur in patients with excess fluid loss due to vomiting and diarrhea, pancreatitis, and burns.
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/hypon...m/page2_em.htm

So what did you learn?

A. Hyponatremia isn't only for marathon runners.
B. The environment that you work out in plays a part.
C. It is difficult to monitor the needs of an athlete. (are you ready to take the "magic wand" away from Mr. Ariza?)
D. It does not necessarily occur right after an event. It can also be chronic with no or little symptoms.
E. Can cause dark urine, which Floyd claimed to have.
F. Could be the reason an athlete is unable to urinate.


Once again, I'm not arguing that he had any form of hyponatremia. Just pointing out that you really have no idea what you are talking about.

I think you didn't read what you posted.

1. Marathoners and the likes are the ones who usually get it but I already told you that its about "prolonged physical activity" and told you that Floyd said that in the last FEW DAYS, he will go to the gym and do a "little bit" to "shake out" and stay sharp. "prolonged physical activity" is the complete opposite of what Floyd said.

So please, stop bringing up stuff that has NOTHING to do with Floyd.



2. Floyd couldn't urinate so how can they get a test! That is the first line of tests. For more extreme cases/difficult cases they also order blood tests from the LAB.

Diagnosis

There are three essential laboratory tests in the evaluation of patients with hyponatremia that, together with the history and the physical examination, help to establish the primary underlying etiologic mechanism: urine osmolality, serum osmolality, and urinary sodium concentration.


3. Sodium helps regulate blood pressure. If there was a sodium imbalance to the point that an IV was a must ...... but Fortunately for us, we have this information. Floyd's blood pressure and pulse were A+ normal!

4. "Hyponatremia is not only for marathon runners" - They mentioned that they are drinking too much water. Well Floyd continued to drink both before and after (there are plenty of videos BOTH before and right after the IV. Sorry) ...... The solution to this is to cut back on drinking fluids not drink more and certainly not salt free water! Since according to this, that is what got him into trouble to start with!!!

"drinking too much water, ..... your doctor may recommend temporarily cutting back on fluids."

5. Floyd didn't go to the hospital to get properly tested nor for monitoring. Brain swelling and death is why one would want to go to the hospital for this. Floyd didn't ....... If diagnosed and prescribed, the doctor will prescribe IV at intervals in a hospital setting.

Futhermore, monitoring in a hospital setting is needed to verify if there was an overcorrection/undercorrection. Floyd got some Vegas service to get him the IV and then what? Oh yeah, Dr Alex Ariza monitored the whole thing ..... so Floyd was good!


I can say more but that should stop any more of this nonsense (I doubt it though)

[ADP02]

Dude, you said it yourself. They have the option to review the application for the TUE, as the application is sent to them as per their code.

The issue is obviously one they are well aware of, and that is clear because the WADA spokesperson comments on it!

If they found that USADA did not act appropriately, they would have to place sanctions on USADA, just as they did to other anti-doping agencies.

You were proven wrong by saying the IV can't be given to combat dehydration. The direct quote is there. Now man up and admit you are wrong.

I NEVER said what you said!

I have said it just a few posts ago and many many times over that an IV can be used for dehydration BUT NOT for Floyd's at most mild form of dehydration! I mentioned that WADA clearly mentions that it can in emergency type situations but states that drinking fluids is the way to go for mild to moderate levels of dehydration.


Someone interviews a "spokesperson" with no name and they responded by saying we didn't monitor this case ...

[ADP02]

Dude, both of us have stated that we don't know his medical condition that called for the IV.

YOU on the other hand often say, "Floyd didn't have that" without any proof.

Am I right or am I wrong?

Sorry but I continue to go by what Floyd/Ellerbe have stated.

Reasons for requiring an IV? "I was extremely Dehydrated".
Why? "Urine, blood and exercise ....."

"Some athletes drink Pedialyte, .... I used an IV" - Floyd
You cannot make this sh$t up! WOW!



You on the other hand have invented issues that Floyd didn't mention or have. Poster Dosumptin DosThatToo

[travestyny]

I think you didn't read what you posted.

1. Marathoners and the likes are the ones who usually get it but I already told you that its about "prolonged physical activity" and told you that Floyd said that in the last FEW DAYS, he will go to the gym and do a "little bit" to "shake out" and stay sharp. "prolonged physical activity" is the complete opposite of what Floyd said.

So please, stop bringing up stuff that has NOTHING to do with Floyd.



2. Floyd couldn't urinate so how can they get a test! That is the first line of tests. For more extreme cases/difficult cases they also order blood tests from the LAB.

Diagnosis

There are three essential laboratory tests in the evaluation of patients with hyponatremia that, together with the history and the physical examination, help to establish the primary underlying etiologic mechanism: urine osmolality, serum osmolality, and urinary sodium concentration.


3. Sodium helps regulate blood pressure. If there was a sodium imbalance to the point that an IV was a must ...... but Fortunately for us, we have this information. Floyd's blood pressure and pulse were A+ normal!

4. "Hyponatremia is not only for marathon runners" - They mentioned that they are drinking too much water. Well Floyd continued to drink both before and after (there are plenty of videos BOTH before and right after the IV. Sorry) ...... The solution to this is to cut back on drinking fluids not drink more and certainly not salt free water! Since according to this, that is what got him into trouble to start with!!!

"drinking too much water, ..... your doctor may recommend temporarily cutting back on fluids."

5. Floyd didn't go to the hospital to get properly tested nor for monitoring. Brain swelling and death is why one would want to go to the hospital for this. Floyd didn't ....... If diagnosed and prescribed, the doctor will prescribe IV at intervals in a hospital setting.

Futhermore, monitoring in a hospital setting is needed to verify if there was an overcorrection/undercorrection. Floyd got some Vegas service to get him the IV and then what? Oh yeah, Dr Alex Ariza monitored the whole thing ..... so Floyd was good!


I can say more but that should stop any more of this nonsense (I doubt it though)

Nice try. He gave a partial urine sample. You already know this by now. The point is, could this be why he couldn't urinate more?

And again, even with the video that you posted, what did he say in the first minute? Something like "going to rest the legs." I've asked you many times if he was still running? You couldn't answer, could you?

You don't know if part of his urine was taken for analysis, do you?

Are you beginning to understand that you have no idea what happened here, and your speculation isn't sufficient?

[travestyny]

I NEVER said what you said!

I have said it just a few posts ago and many many times over that an IV can be used for dehydration BUT NOT for Floyd's at most mild form of dehydration! I mentioned that WADA clearly mentions that it can in emergency type situations but states that drinking fluids is the way to go for mild to moderate levels of dehydration.


Someone interviews a "spokesperson" with no name and they responded by saying we didn't monitor this case ...

Ok, so then you agree that an IV can be used to treat dehydration in accordance with WADA's rules, right? Thanks for that.

Now, what do you know about his state of dehydration? Let's see, only information from the NSAC, who by the way has never diagnosed a fighter with dehydration on fight night.

Don't try to twist it. The spokesperson commenting makes it clear that WADA was aware of the issue, and that WADA makes it clear that according to their rules, which USADA as a signatory must follow, a TUE can be given for an IV used to combat dehydration. You're pretty much finished.

[travestyny]

Sorry but I continue to go by what Floyd/Ellerbe have stated.

Reasons for requiring an IV? "I was extremely Dehydrated".
Why? "Urine, blood and exercise ....."

"Some athletes drink Pedialyte, .... I used an IV" - Floyd
You cannot make this sh$t up! WOW!



You on the other hand have invented issues that Floyd didn't mention or have. Poster Dosumptin DosThatToo

Wrong. I showed you that there were situations where an IV would rightfully be used, and WADA agrees. Now I have a quotation from a spokesperson who was specifically asked about this case, and the statement still agrees.


This issue is pretty much over as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for playing.

I'm ready to hear your opinion of the good doctor Neal ElAttrache. What say you?

[ADP02]

Nice try. He gave a partial urine sample. You already know this by now. The point is, could this be why he couldn't urinate more?

And again, even with the video that you posted, what did he say in the first minute? Something like "going to rest the legs." I've asked you many times if he was still running? You couldn't answer, could you?

You don't know if part of his urine was taken for analysis, do you?

Are you beginning to understand that you have no idea what happened here, and your speculation isn't sufficient?

Couldn't respond I see ....



That's dumb ... take a partial then stop because Floyd needs to use the rest for something else? Man, you are making USADA look worse than I did!


Floyd had not seconds or minutes but hours and hours to give just 90ml of urine. If you check out Floyd, he is always drinking fluids. ALWAYS!!! So you are saying this same guy who you see continually hydrating himself and has a bottle with him practically wherever he goes, is severely dehydrated to the point that he requires an IV?

[ADP02]

Ok, so then you agree that an IV can be used to treat dehydration in accordance with WADA's rules, right? Thanks for that.

Now, what do you know about his state of dehydration? Let's see, only information from the NSAC, who by the way has never diagnosed a fighter with dehydration on fight night.

Don't try to twist it. The spokesperson commenting makes it clear that WADA was aware of the issue, and that WADA makes it clear that according to their rules, which USADA as a signatory must follow, a TUE can be given for an IV used to combat dehydration. You're pretty much finished.

You were the one twisting it. I always said you can, nothing new but Floyd was in no state that required him to get an IV.

Reporter: Why an IV?
Ellerbe: "Just for hydration"
Floyd: "Some athletes use Pedialyte, .... I used an IV"

USADA gave Floyd a freebie RETRO TUE!

Why not do like other athletes and drink Pedialyte or something else?



WADA points out that it can be acceptable when its an emergency type situation. If its not and you can drink fluids then that is the way to go.... orally.


It must be understood that the use of IV fluid replacement following exercise to correct mild to moderate dehydration is not clinically indicated nor substantiated by the medical literature. There is a well-established body of scientific evidence to confirm that oral rehydration is the preferred the****utic choice, potentially even more effective than IV infusion.

[ADP02]

Wrong. I showed you that there were situations where an IV would rightfully be used, and WADA agrees. Now I have a quotation from a spokesperson who was specifically asked about this case, and the statement still agrees.


This issue is pretty much over as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for playing.

I'm ready to hear your opinion of the good doctor Neal ElAttrache. What say you?

Again, I'm talking about Floyd's case not someone who collapsed after doing long extraneous type activity(ie. A case of an athlete that must get an IV). Floyd said it that for the last few days, he was mostly relaxing and would go to the gym "a little bit" to "shake out" and "stay sharp".

I have direct quotes from Floyd and his case. YOU are left to quote something entirely off into left field! Stick with the facts!