Ward > Mayweather jr ATG status if he beats Kovolov?

[New England]

I hate bringing it up but at the time of the fight corrales was prime, bigger, and higher ranked p4p fighter than Floyd. Take the ratings how you will but if I recall Floyd was 5 and Chico 3.

i'm not going to go crazy looking into it, but from the end of the year rankings it looks like corrales was 5. kovalev is currently #2 on a lot of lists.


that fight was also at 130, where floyd had been for the entirety of his career and where he was a world champion. he fought hernandez at 130, and that fight was almost 3 years before corrales.

ward's grown and is probably a natural 175 lber to the point tat he can no longer even make 168, but it's still his first time fighting a world champion at 175 lbs. so i still give the "bigger" angle to ward. floyd wasn't a small 130 lber . i know the floydians try and spin floyd to be smalller than eh was, but the guy had a very good chin and power at 130 lbs, and his reach was superhuman.

[New England]

Once again, that has a lot more to do with the eras they fight in. P4p lists are very subjective and things like who's fighting when you are fighting matter. Look at the lists from the time Floyd fought those guys. Kovalev wouldn't be near the top of any of those lists.

do you think chico corrales is a better fighter than sergey kovalev? i don't think he's got a better resume than kovalev's got right now, with two knockout wins over pascal, shutout of old hopkins, some of the contenders via brutal knockout.


who did corrales beat at the time? yes, he had power, but the resume wasn't as good as you evidently think it was. angelmanfreddy and derrick gainer. good fighters [actually watched manfreddy and gatti fight last night. peach left hook on him.] but really not gusy that separate him from kovalev's contemporary resume to any great degree.

[Kagami Taiga]

do you think chico corrales is a better fighter than sergey kovalev? i don't think he's got a better resume than kovalev's got right now, with two knockout wins over pascal, shutout of old hopkins, some of the contenders via brutal knockout.


who did corrales beat at the time? yes, he had power, but the resume wasn't as good as you evidently think it was. angelmanfreddy and derrick gainer. good fighters [actually watched manfreddy and gatti fight last night. peach left hook on him.] but really not gusy that separate him from kovalev's contemporary resume to any great degree.

You just talked about Kovalev beating Pascal. Not even a prime Pascal. Pascal isn't a better fighter than Manfredy. He's equivalent in more ways than not. I think it's easy to talk up newer fighters and forget what old fighters have done. But Jean Pascal doesn't put you on a p4p list that includes:
1. Shane Mosley 2. Felix Trinidad 3. Roy Jones Jr. 4. Oscar De La Hoya 5. Diego Corrales 6. Naseem Hamed 7. Floyd Mayweather Jr. 8. Lennox Lewis 9. Erik Morales 10. Bernard Hopkins

It just doesnt translate the same.

[bojangles1987]

he's higher ranked than castillo and chico corrales were p4p.
i guess one can make the argument for corrales, but would you?


and manny was arguably higher p4p than kovalev, but let's face it, manny pacquiao hasn't been manny pacquiao for a long, long time. that guy was incredible in his prime, and the guy floyd fought was much more tame and had lost a lot physically.


personally, i think that if manny and kovalev were the same size that kovalev would knock manny out if they fought in october. that's more of a testament to manny fading than anything else, obviously, but floyd fought him a bit over a year ago, and when he was way, way past it.

Yeah, but like others are arguing I wouldn't just use the p4p rankings here, I'm more looking at caliber of fighter. And while I think highly of Kovalev and where he is heading (win or lose against Ward), I can't say he is a better win than any of the many great wins Mayweather has. Corrales, Castillo, and Pac are were all really good wins over really good fighters. Pac was definitely pretty far past it but he was still good enough to embarrass welterweight contenders before and after the Mayweather loss.

But I keep an open mind to Kovalev proving to be a better win in the future. I just can't say it right now.

[Bushbaby]

Definitely not. Great win, but Mayweather has more than a handful that are better and more that are at least comparable.

I'm sorry, but can you name me 1 win on Floyd's resume that would be greater than Ward beating Kovalev? Because I don't think there is one.

[Bushbaby]

I hate bringing it up but at the time of the fight corrales was prime, bigger, and higher ranked p4p fighter than Floyd. Take the ratings how you will but if I recall Floyd was 5 and Chico 3.

Chico was taller, but was he bigger?? Because he sure didn't impress in his one fight at 147 when he got dominated by Clottey.

[New England]

You just talked about Kovalev beating Pascal. Not even a prime Pascal. Pascal isn't a better fighter than Manfredy. He's equivalent in more ways than not. I think it's easy to talk up newer fighters and forget what old fighters have done. But Jean Pascal doesn't put you on a p4p list that includes:
1. Shane Mosley 2. Felix Trinidad 3. Roy Jones Jr. 4. Oscar De La Hoya 5. Diego Corrales 6. Naseem Hamed 7. Floyd Mayweather Jr. 8. Lennox Lewis 9. Erik Morales 10. Bernard Hopkins

It just doesnt translate the same.

and you're talking about angel manfredy, a guy who had honestly seen better days at 25 or 26 or whatever he was when they fought, and who was coming down in weight. pascal's not as good of a boxer as manfredy, but he did more in his career. pascal didnt' have a lot of skill,s but he was awkward, and had a chin and power and he ended up being more than the sum of his parts. LHW isn't HW, but it's certainly not LW. power and a chin get you much further. dude was the lineal LHW champion of the world.

pascal's win over dawson, a very good fighter and the guy who calzaghe and hopkins swerved for some time, is better than anything on manfreddy's resume. manfreddy had better moves, but pascal did more.


and finally there is the issue of weight that would lead me to think that ward beating kovalev may likely be a better win than any on floyd's resume [fight has to happen, and ward needs to win, and we need to know how.] corrales was a big 130 lber, but so was floyd mayweather. both had been at 130 lbs for a long time. floyd had been world champion at the weight for several years. ward's never fought a 175 lber in the top 10, and is really a 168 lber moving up and tuning up for 175 at this stage.

[boxinghead530]

Does Ward become a greater boxer than little floyd on the all time greats list if he defeats Kovolov? I persinally already think Ward is greater than him but you know money makes the world go round and people look past great boxing accomplishments due to admiring the almighty dollar.

Not at all. Ward has been to inactive to be on Floyds ATG level. If he wasn't so inactive and fighting these tomatoes cans he has been fighting lately and fighting top guys then maybe you could start this talk if he were to beat Kovalev. But with where he is not even a win over Kovalev would get Ward close to Floyd on the ATG scale.

[New England]

Chico was taller, but was he bigger?? Because he sure didn't impress in his one fight at 147 when he got dominated by Clottey.

i don;t think floyd was significanty larger, if even larger at all, than corrales. corrales was about as big a 130 lber as you're gonna see.


josh clottey was a big welterweight. showtime unofficially weighed him and he was 170 lbs. not saying those scales are the be all end all, but that's still a solid welterwegith even if the scale is 10 lbs heavy

[sicko]

NO! HELL NO! You don't surpass a Mayweather with 1 Match

What he would have to do is clean up 175. Beat Kovalev, beat Stevenson, beat Beterbiev and I think his Legacy is written in stone if he can get up to Cruiserweight and have a run in that Division then yes that will leave no doubt and you will then be talking about one of the greatest to ever do it. But 1 match at a time, make sure he gets passed Brand Quick Fans and in a hurry without any injuries and then start to focus on Kovalev