If Haymon doesn't bail out Top Rank... is Arum finished?

[Scipio2009]

This doesn't make any sense.

With Pacquiao hanging up the gloves and Marquez basically one fight away from hanging up his own gloves, who does Top Rank still have under their banner that is currently worth anything to TV?

Tim Bradley (just got beat; high minimums), Jessie Vargas (who I think is about to get routed by Kell Brook), Terrence Crawford, Vasyl Lomachenko, and then the pups (Ramirez, Verdejo, Valdez, Shiming).

Everyone under the current Top Rank banner is basically two years away from being usable commodities for Bob Arum.

[Scipio2009]

I don't see why Arum WOULDN"T want his guys on national TV. And I doubt Arum gets made into a passenger. Leija Battah, Warriors & even GYM seem more like passengers among PBC than Arum could be. Arum is a personality by himself & if you try to piss on his foot he'll wipe his **** out & piss on your head. I don't see the downside, business-wise or ego-wise in PBC & Arum having a relationship like PBC & Hearn.

And to be clear I'm not saying this all is going to happen any day now or it'll happen at all I'm just speculating on the seeming lack of issues with this happening on all sides. Its win all away around. Granted Haymon might sneak Crawford or Bradley into an advisor deal or something like that.

Pride is something else. Leija Battah, Warriors, GYM, and the rest of the Haymon-affiliated promoters seem to have Haymon's utter confidence to market the events as they see fit.

Arum will never have that confidence with Haymon, and Arum's burned so many bridges with so many parties that dragging him along for his "personality" isn't worth it either.

Eddie Hearn and Haymon's relationship is different, in the sense that both men come to the relationship from positions of strength and with respect for each other's business; Eddie Hearn driving the resurgence of boxing in the UK, has clear allegience with his broadcaster, but he's willing to do business for fights that makes sense to both parties.

Haymon/Hearn is far more like Haymon/Schaefer than anything, tbh.

[Scipio2009]

[QUOTE=Eff Pandas;16758559]

^I disagree. For PBC to succeed, Haymon needs to lock in a critical mass of the top talent across the weight classes, which he's already done. He was never going to get everybody and, just like the UFC, he doesn't need everybody (though, with Ward possibly knocking off Kovalev, bringing RocNation and the WBA/IBF/WBO 175 belts under the umbrella would be a benefit)./QUOTE]

If PBC current talent is THE talent they will fail. They need a bigger critical mass of fighters & they need the bigger names.

Sure they don't need everyone, but they do need more guys. The UFC tends to have about 500-600 guys under contract at any given time & the elite-MMA world is much smaller than the boxing world the way I see it. PBC is probably gonna need about 1,000 fighters before they are a NFL of boxing. That'd be about 5% of active fighters. This is a long term plan. Once they get that TV deal they will probably start padding the roster again.

I don't think the roster count will get anywhere near as expansive as you're projecting.

[Mitchell Kane]

With Pacquiao hanging up the gloves and Marquez basically one fight away from hanging up his own gloves, who does Top Rank still have under their banner that is currently worth anything to TV?

Tim Bradley (just got beat; high minimums), Jessie Vargas (who I think is about to get routed by Kell Brook), Terrence Crawford, Vasyl Lomachenko, and then the pups (Ramirez, Verdejo, Valdez, Shiming).

Everyone under the current Top Rank banner is basically two years away from being usable commodities for Bob Arum.

Depends on how some fights go.

If Ramirez beats Britsch and if the Chudinov fight gets made and he wins that then he may only months away, not two years away.

If Donaire-Magdaleno gets made that's an HBO-caliber fight, the winner isn't two years away from other big fights.

If Valdez beats Rueda and Lonachwnko drops the belt, he's a titleholder.

Jose Ramirez may not be that far away.

The guys who are two years away are most like the Saul Rodriguez, Julian Rodriguez, Murata, et al.

[PKing]

Depends on how some fights go.

If Ramirez beats Britsch and if the Chudinov fight gets made and he wins that then he's only months away, not two years away.

If Donaire-Magdaleno gets made that's an HBO-caliber fight, the winner isn't two years away.

If Valdez beats Rueda and Lonachwnko drops the belt, he's a titleholder.

Jose Ramirez may not be that far away.

The guys who are two years away are most like the Saul Rodriguez, Julian Rodriguez, Murata, et al.

If Arum couldn't get Ax man-Lomanchenko on HBO, he ain't getting ANY of those guys on regardless of wins.

[Eff Pandas]

I don't think the roster count will get anywhere near as expansive as you're projecting.

Then PBC fails. They need a critical mass of talent & what they got isn't it by a longshot. Although fwiw I don't think these guys necessarily need to be Haymon advised fighters they can just be guys under the Haymon promoters banner officially & regular fighters in the bigger PBC fold. So by adding guys to his advised roster + working with more promoters the full roster will expand out to a 4 digit or at least a near 4 digit number.

[PKing]

Then PBC fails. They need a critical mass of talent & what they got isn't it by a longshot. Although fwiw I don't think these guys necessarily need to be Haymon advised fighters they can just be guys under the Haymon promoters banner officially & regular fighters in the bigger PBC fold. So by adding guys to his advised roster + working with more promoters the full roster will expand out to a 4 digit or at least a near 4 digit number.

PBC fails if it doesn't get sponsors on board and networks to pay for the product.

So far it seems like they are getting sponsors bit by bit.

[IMDAZED]

PBC fails if it doesn't get sponsors on board and networks to pay for the product.

So far it seems like they are getting sponsors bit by bit.

Exactly. The idea that they need hundreds more fighters or else they fail is ludicrous. Although I won't be surprised to see him adding more (he is by the day), their future doesn't depend on it.

[Eff Pandas]

Pride is something else. Leija Battah, Warriors, GYM, and the rest of the Haymon-affiliated promoters seem to have Haymon's utter confidence to market the events as they see fit.

Arum will never have that confidence with Haymon, and Arum's burned so many bridges with so many parties that dragging him along for his "personality" isn't worth it either.

I wasn't suggesting Bob was gonna be drug along cuz he's an interesting guy, just that no one with PBC is interesting & they could use some personality besides Lou DiBella & now Floyd. Bob would get drug along cuz he's a great finder of talent & he has fighters who are heavily talked about & respected like Crawford, Loma, Bradley along with a nice lil group of prospects that would be greatly helped by free network tv time. And Haymon could use all the talent he can get fighting on PBC.

Eddie Hearn and Haymon's relationship is different, in the sense that both men come to the relationship from positions of strength and with respect for each other's business; Eddie Hearn driving the resurgence of boxing in the UK, has clear allegience with his broadcaster, but he's willing to do business for fights that makes sense to both parties.

Haymon/Hearn is far more like Haymon/Schaefer than anything, tbh.

Who's to say Haymon doesn't respect Arum or Arum doesn't respect Haymon ultimately or there is even a new found respect after they've both gotten peeks at how the other operates & does business? I just don't see how two guys being rational & they both seem really rational even if Arum's more gruff about his rationality & sometimes dramatic with it & Haymon's rationalness is quiet & often viewed as irrationalness by fans can't work together when there is upside for both sides like there would be here. If thats not possible the foreseeable future is more f#cked up than I think.

[PKing]

Exactly. The idea that they need hundreds more fighters or else they fail is ludicrous. Although I won't be surprised to see him adding more (he is by the day), their future doesn't depend on it.

Pretty much so... either fight on Unimas or FS1/Bounce... which one pays more?