The Final Verdict: Did Pac Have a Full Thickness Rotator Cuff Tear?

[travestyny]

...he bought the bottle of beer at 11:15

He's now sure that he bought the bottle of beer at 12:15.....if he is not mistaken. lol

[Real King Kong]

He's now sure that he bought the bottle of beer at 12:15.....if he is not mistaken. lol

[tangalog2200]

No, that's ok..... I'm not a lawyer, I just stopped in for a laugh

laughing at yourself? ha ha ha ha

enjoy it! cheers!

[ADP02]

i am really amazed how far and long this issue has been up in the air.....

really, i still could not see where this is leading to.....

I'm just laughing at how far Travestny can go with this speculation. Reason? Him and a few other Floyd fans said until we have ALL the evidence we are all speculating that Floyd used something illegal (IV scandal) ..... technically, Floyd admitted to using an illegal method ..... anyways .....

Yet for Manny, he has nothing but his crazy speculation vs Manny who had a confirmed injury and operation by a renowned surgeon.

[travestyny]

I'm just laughing at how far Travestny can go with this speculation. Reason? Him and a few other Floyd fans said until we have ALL the evidence we are all speculating that Floyd used something illegal (IV scandal) ..... technically, Floyd admitted to using an illegal method ..... anyways .....

Yet for Manny, he has nothing but his crazy speculation vs Manny who had a confirmed injury and operation by a renowned surgeon.

I'm just laughing at how far ADP02 can go with this speculation. Reason? Him and a few other Pac fans said Pac's injury is exactly what he said it was due to a Doctor stating that it was, though ADP02 was quoted about a dozen times saying that doctors' statements can't be trusted when it came to Floyd....anyways.....

Yet for Floyd, he has nothing but his crazy speculation vs. Floyd who had a confirmed medical condition that was treated by a physician and approved of by a world renowned organization which happens to be the National Anti-Doping Agency for the United States.

Think about that. Apparently, we are all laughing together.

[ADP02]

I'm going to expose you one last time. You like to bring up over and over that I posted a picture of Pac with a flag and I was lead to believe it was post surgery. Let's take a look at how you've fuvked up.


1. Basketball:
First you claimed that a doctor proved me wrong:



Remember that? That's even your red bolding and underlining. Only you FUVKED UP because you didn't know they were claiming a full-thickness rotator cuff surgery. Do you admit you fucved up?

So when that one went down the drain, then you stuck to the scenario that he shoots left handed so it's ok. Even if he shot the proper way left handed, it still wouldn't be OK, but I'll show you why it's even worse!:

1.


2.



Now answer these questions.
1. Doesn't it appear that he positions his right arm over and behind his head to shoot?

2. Does it appear that his right arm is involved in shooting the ball based on how he clearly follows through with both arms and flicks both wrists? Isn't it clear that both arms are moving at the same velocity, or one arm would be leaving the other behind, no?

YOU FUVKED UP!

B. Salt water cure
You said this:

You first stated this flat out. When I pressed you on it, you backtracked and said it was just possibly what he meant. YOU FUVKED UP!

C. The Doctor:
You said this:

But you also said this:



Look at the below statement:

2. Pac Fans bringing up that Pac's doctor said so, so it must be true...it's what one would call being deliberately naive.

Now, being that you gave comment 1, how do you refute comment 2? I'd love to hear this. Guess what. YOU FUVKED UP!

C. Self-Rehab:
You said this:


So here you admit it was self-rehab. Before you quoted Freddie Roach saying that he talked to the doctor in the Phils that was doing the rehab. Did you not post this?:



SO, Freddie Roach talked to whom? And he said what? He said the salt water was just a story???? You believed what Roach said. Now you are saying the opposite. It was suddenly SELF-REHAB and the salt-water wasn't a made up story, it was suddenly aquatic rehab (with no proof and no training from a rehab specialist). hahahhaha. YOU FUVKED UP!


Finally, you said this:


Only problem is Pacquaio said this:


Type 1 Rotator Cuff Repair:
No Swimming for up to 15 weeks after surgery.

Type 2 Rotator Cuff Repair:
No swimming up to 20 weeks after surgery.
http://www.uwhealth.org/files/uwheal...RTC_Repair.pdf

Some questions for you. Read carefully now.
1. Who taught him this aquatic rehabilitation since he admits that he didn't go see a doctor and didn't go to rehab?
2. Why does he say all he did is swim if....he didn't swim?
3. Where is your proof of aquatic rehabilitation instead of swimming in the ocean, as he himself claims? Hmmmm?
4. How does "I NEVER DID REHAB" = "I DID AQUATIC REHAB"????????
Are you ready to give up and leave this alone now? Exposing you is too easy. I'm bored of this already.

So you couldn't come back with FACTS so you went and take things out of context and splattering it in your above post? I told you that we do not know everything since we do not have all the information and presented to you various scenarios but you keep on going down the SAME PATH!!! It's becoming comical.


I posted where people have gone in water after surgery. You would have related if this was about Floyd but since its not, you are playing dumb. You just cannot be dumb like you are pretending to be. So I just do not buy it.

Many things done on land can be done in water. Plus I'm sure he was doing other things too.

Roach said Manny went for some rehab early on but then stopped and just did self-rehab. It was also mentioned that he was supposed to see someone later. So you need to follow the timeline. Still, I asked you this before but anyways, rehab can be done without continually seeing a PT. They give you the exercises and you do most on your own.

I told you to get me FACTS but you cannot because all you are is someone playing internet doctor.

You do not know what you are talking about. Manny can rehab in water:
"I'm 61 and I celebrated 3 months of post surgery ...everything is progressing quite nicely. (full, massive tear of infraspinatus repaired and superspinatus fully torn but unrepairable, left shoulder). I played golf a couple of times and that causes some extra ache. I worked very hard on my physical therapy for 3 months going far beyond what was required with many extra minutes of standard pully and rubber band, long walks while constantly exercising my shoulder, lite resistance training and working in the swimming pool."

I can post someone SURFING at 6-7 months so he was swimming much earlier than that ..... but that is not what Manny was doing early on nor what these other people were doing either BUT I'm sure you will not call all of these people liars. Right? Lots of people rehab in water.




Study:
how long it takes to obtain functional recovery, and (2) what preoperative factors influence functional recovery time.

Results

To achieve a score greater than 80% , it took 63 patients (31.3%) less than 3 months (Group A), 81 patients (40.3%) between 3 and 6 months (Group B), and 57 patients (28.4%) greater than 6 months (Group C)

Preoperative influencing factors after rotator cuff repair reported: Age, Tear size, Stiffness, Fatty degeneration, Retraction, Muscle strength, Gender, Tear morphology.

On Group A (functional recovery time less than 3 months), 5% had Massive tears, 19% had Large tears.

They said that preoperative factor influenced the functional recovery period. In Manny's case, his shoulder and the muscles around the tear were in great condition since he was training. Plus read what Manny's doctor said:



Manny's doctor said:
"Severity?

Dr: "Condition of the tissue, can it be replaced to the area it was torn, health of muscle and bone.
You can have a large tear but if quality of tissue, muscle and bone is good then the size of the tear can sometimes be of secondary concern.

In Manny's case it was a sizeable tear but the tissue was healthy, it was replaced back to its place ... and the type of repair that was performed in his situation was extremely strong.

REporter: How was the muscle?


Dr: Very good, very healthy. So all those things that we really look for to determine seriousness or severity were not there for Manny.
"


The point is that everyone is different. Again, you know that Manny was in great shape and his doctor said what about seriousness or severity? Were not there for Manny .... everything pointed to it not being serious.


Now instead of pointing to "swimming" that has NOTHING to do with Manny, lets see real facts about Manny. Oh wait. You do not have anything. Nevermind .... but do not let that stop you.




.

[ADP02]

I'm just laughing at how far ADP02 can go with this speculation. Reason? Him and a few other Pac fans said Pac's injury is exactly what he said it was due to a Doctor stating that it was, though ADP02 was quoted about a dozen times saying that doctors' statements can't be trusted when it came to Floyd....anyways.....

Yet for Floyd, he has nothing but his crazy speculation vs. Floyd who had a confirmed medical condition that was treated by a physician and approved of by a world renowned organization which happens to be the National Anti-Doping Agency for the United States.

Think about that. Apparently, we are all laughing together.

I'm basing it on not any doctor. A renowned doctor that had much more to lose by lying than gaining if it would come out.

Only that? Nope. Other doctors confirmed.
Only that? Nope. Read some studies.
Only that? Nope. What Manny did appears to be possible.
Only that? Nope. Manny had to show the NSAC confirmation that he was ready. Possibly an MRI.
Only that? Nope. No, I know you are not an expert. Just pretending to be one on the internet
Only that? Nope. No, I debunked several supposed FACTS that you had but that is not stopping you.
Only that? Nope. Manny came back 1 year later
Only that? Nope. If it was Floyd, you would have said, announcing a fight soon after surgery is possible. and you did. FACT!!! So you double talk!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only that? Nope. Go check out the Floyd IV scandal thread. You keep on saying that one needs 100% of the facts before they can determine or else its just speculation. What about what Floyd said? It does not matter ... you need not 99%, you need all 100% or its called speculation





.

[travestyny]

So you couldn't come back with FACTS so you went and take things out of context and splattering it in your above post? I told you that we do not know everything since we do not have all the information and presented to you various scenarios but you keep on going down the SAME PATH!!! It's becoming comical.


I posted where people have gone in water after surgery. You would have related if this was about Floyd but since its not, you are playing dumb. You just cannot be dumb like you are pretending to be. So I just do not buy it.

Many things done on land can be done in water. Plus I'm sure he was doing other things too.

Roach said Manny went for some rehab early on but then stopped and just did self-rehab. It was also mentioned that he was supposed to see someone later. So you need to follow the timeline. Still, I asked you this before but anyways, rehab can be done without continually seeing a PT. They give you the exercises and you do most on your own.

I told you to get me FACTS but you cannot because all you are is someone playing internet doctor.

You do not know what you are talking about. Manny can rehab in water:
"I'm 61 and I celebrated 3 months of post surgery ...everything is progressing quite nicely. (full, massive tear of infraspinatus repaired and superspinatus fully torn but unrepairable, left shoulder). I played golf a couple of times and that causes some extra ache. I worked very hard on my physical therapy for 3 months going far beyond what was required with many extra minutes of standard pully and rubber band, long walks while constantly exercising my shoulder, lite resistance training and working in the swimming pool."

I can post someone SURFING at 6-7 months so he was swimming much earlier than that ..... but that is not what Manny was doing early on nor what these other people were doing either BUT I'm sure you will not call all of these people liars. Right? Lots of people rehab in water.




Study:
how long it takes to obtain functional recovery, and (2) what preoperative factors influence functional recovery time.

Results

To achieve a score greater than 80% , it took 63 patients (31.3%) less than 3 months (Group A), 81 patients (40.3%) between 3 and 6 months (Group B), and 57 patients (28.4%) greater than 6 months (Group C)

Preoperative influencing factors after rotator cuff repair reported: Age, Tear size, Stiffness, Fatty degeneration, Retraction, Muscle strength, Gender, Tear morphology.

On Group A (functional recovery time less than 3 months), 5% had Massive tears, 19% had Large tears.

They said that preoperative factor influenced the functional recovery period. In Manny's case, his shoulder and the muscles around the tear were in great condition since he was training. Plus read what Manny's doctor said:



Manny's doctor said:
"Severity?

Dr: "Condition of the tissue, can it be replaced to the area it was torn, health of muscle and bone.
You can have a large tear but if quality of tissue, muscle and bone is good then the size of the tear can sometimes be of secondary concern.

In Manny's case it was a sizeable tear but the tissue was healthy, it was replaced back to its place ... and the type of repair that was performed in his situation was extremely strong.

REporter: How was the muscle?


Dr: Very good, very healthy. So all those things that we really look for to determine seriousness or severity were not there for Manny.
"


The point is that everyone is different. Again, you know that Manny was in great shape and his doctor said what about seriousness or severity? Were not there for Manny .... everything pointed to it not being serious.


Now instead of pointing to "swimming" that has NOTHING to do with Manny, lets see real facts about Manny. Oh wait. You do not have anything. Nevermind .... but do not let that stop you.
.

Don't know what this is all about, and I don't really care. Why do you keep dodging my questions?


Let's start here.

If Pacquaio says, "I never did Rehab," how do you take that statement and say that it means he did aquatic rehab?

Was he lying? I'll wait for your answer.

[travestyny]

I'm basing it on not any doctor. A renowned doctor that had much more to lose by lying than gaining if it would come out.

Only that? Nope. Other doctors confirmed.

Ohhh, so your 12 quotations about doctors lying only applies if they are not renowned doctors? And what exactly did these phantom other doctors confirm? That he was recovering after some sort of surgery, or that there was a full-thickness tear? Do you have that information. Even if you do, does it mean that it's true since they are not renown doctors and are subject to lying according to you? Do share your opinion.

Only that? Nope. Read some studies.

Did you? Did they explain why he claimed to be completely rehabbed in 3 months...without attending rehab?

Only that? Nope. What Manny did appears to be possible.

Sure. If you are a Pacroach

Only that? Nope. Manny had to show the NSAC confirmation that he was ready. Possibly an MRI.

What? Ready for what? I hope you mean ready to return to the ring? He definitely did not show the NSAC an MRI showing that he had a full-thickness rotator cuff injury that required surgery. Please tell me that's not what you mean.

Only that? Nope. No, I know you are not an expert. Just pretending to be one on the internet

How many medical documents did I link you to? About 11? Do you want more expert testimony or is that enough?

Only that? Nope. No, I debunked several supposed FACTS that you had but that is not stopping you.

You "debunked" one photo which I did not even include in my proof here. You have debunked NOTHING in this thread. Absolutely nothing, and that's why you can't let the topic go. You should look up the word debunk. Just because you say it to make yourself feel better, doesn't mean that you've done anything. You've done absolutely nothing. Point blank, period.

Only that? Nope. Manny came back 1 year later

What's your point? He was swimming before 3 months and playing basketball at least at 3 months.

Only that? Nope. If it was Floyd, you would have said, announcing a fight soon after surgery is possible. and you did. FACT!!! So you double talk!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never claimed Floyd had a surgery, you did. I've never seen Floyd quoted that he had a surgery. If you want to discuss this, make your thread like I told you to do. You chickened out because you know you would be chewed to shreds over the subject. I showed you proof that he mentioned the injury in round 1 of that fight. You went quiet about Floyd's shoulder after I mentioned that, didn't you? Make your thread, I'll post the video of after round 1 of the Castillo fight, and your thread will be shut down immediately. Nice job.

Only that? Nope. Go check out the Floyd IV scandal thread. You keep on saying that one needs 100% of the facts before they can determine or else its just speculation. What about what Floyd said? It does not matter ... you need not 99%, you need all 100% or its called speculation

.

Look at all of the facts I've listed here. I gave plenty of medical documentation, photographic evidence, video evidence, testimonial evidence. It's not even close to believable.


See how easy it was for me to rumble through your bs post. Just stop now.

[travestyny]

Now instead of pointing to "swimming" that has NOTHING to do with Manny, lets see real facts about Manny. Oh wait. You do not have anything. Nevermind .... but do not let that stop you.
.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. COME ON MAN. JUST STOP!!!!!!!

"It’s God’s work. I never saw a doctor. I never did rehab. All I did was to swim in the sea as often as I could. The salt water healed my wound,” Pacquiao said to philstar.com.

Are you saying he was lying? lol