American boxing is dead

[Eff Pandas]

I've been thinking about this for some time, especially last night.

The fighters now a days are made from a different cloth and I owe that all to Floyd Mayweather.

Mayweather made the most money in boxing history, and did great for himself, but in the long run, he was not good for the sport.

Sometimes its so hard to know if people are trolling or serious here. LMFAO if you legit believe Floyd f#cked up American boxing. I think its a lil more complicated than one guy. And if Floyd is responsible for destroying American boxing then it was on shaky ass ground to begin with.

I think you are right about the different cloth doe. Its just that people are made from a different cloth in the US. Look at all the pussified **** going on in the US now & in recent history. You don't breed warriors when you are given out trophies for 8th place. When bulling is frowned upon more than not sticking up for yourself. You probably don't breed many warriors when damn near everyone is eating McDonalds & 20lbs overweight minimum either. The US is a bunch of overweight, coddled, half a momos who brag about coming in 5th place like it or not. Thats a bigger problem than anything Floyd coulda thought about doing.

[NEETzsche]

I think its less to do with other sports than just the reality thats its not quite as ****ty in the US as it used to be. Generally the best fighters come from ****ty areas/backgrounds. I mean this is why Chavez Jr has Chavez Sr's genes but he ain't **** compared to his dad for anecdotal evidence. For the most part there are very few people REALLY bad off in the US. And the cats who are breed for warfare tend to get put in the system now more than ever. So the great US fighters that should be around right now were happily going to grocery stores with their mom with a SNAP card & government money & with some hope of better things & grew up soft or fine with the status quo or they are serving 20 years in a state facility not playing for the Giants. More or less thats what I think is what is behind the current less than impressive overall group of US boxers vs what we've seen in the past.

poor people in the UK have it much better than poor people in the USA, yet our boxing scene is currently the best it's ever been and getting better. in fact we're currently #1 going by number of world titles possessed

[-PBP-]

Don't get me wrong they have a long history of amazing fighters but what has happened? Seriously. Come on America sort it out!

I put Shobox on last night. I've not seen a boring fight in that Cruiserweight division for the last 5 years. You could put my nan in with Usyk and it'd somehow be a good value scrap. 4 undefeated Cruiserweight contenders I was hyped to see who was going to go to to the next level and all I seen was headbutts & clinching. Literally more headbutts being thrown & clinches than punches. Pathetic.

Then it got me thinking of all their current fighters. Andre Ward bores me to tears at times but I can appreciate his skills. Apart from Ward what good fighters does America have right now or even exciting fighters?
Its all feather-fisted spoilers like not just a few most, if not all.

I'm not trying to bash American boxing, as a fan I am concerned. How do you go from Mike Tyson, Hagler, Holyfield, Bowe & all these beasts to whatever the hell you're producing right now?

All of them fight like they're in survival mode.

You've got Ward at LHW that is about it apart from what are a few prospects around light middle. Crawford, Thurman are knocking on the door we'll see in their next fights.

Is it todays trainers in America?
I know people will get butthurt over me pointing it out but surely they must see where I am coming from and be concerned because its terrible for the sport.

I think it might come down to finances as well.
Paying certain fighters excessively and others not enough. Never happen but I'd love to see a system in place also in other sports where your pay varies depending on your performances. I don't want to begrudge anybody of a payday but when you've got a great opportunity to raise your stock, you're getting paid well to fight well a nobody you probably should go out and look to make a statement or at least try.

About 5 years back America had the #1 in majority of the 17 divisions. They now have 0.
Bradley, Mayweather, Dawson, Steve Cunningham, Ward, Ortiz was there briefly, I think Rios was elevated when JMM moved up

I really do hope the '08 olympians are for real and are about to flood the world scene.

It starts with the amateur system. The last gold medalist was Ward in 2004. It's no coincidence he's the last special fighter that's come from here.

US greats of the past were great amateurs:

Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Leonard
Holyfield
Whitaker
Jones Jr.
Mayweather
De La Hoya
Ward

All Olympic medalists. Ali, Leonard, Whitaker, Jones and Mayweather were each long reigning top p4p fighters and had stellar amateur careers.

It just goes to show you, most ATGs that came from the USA were the product of a strong farm system. We've lost that and it's apparent when you look at the current landscape.

[Eff Pandas]

poor people in the UK have it much better than poor people in the USA, yet our boxing scene is currently the best it's ever been and getting better. in fact we're currently #1 going by number of world titles possessed

Idk how to **** measure poor between countries, but I imagine its all relative & I can't imagine many poor people in the US give a f#ck or would have any idea that being poor in the UK would be worth ~15% or whatever more free **** than they get now.

And I'm not saying there aren't more contributing factors involved either. I think the UK has a solid amateur base & boxing gyms which is key to bringing guys along. Thats not the case in the US in most regions. In my area specifically, upstate NY, there are more MMA gyms than boxing gyms by at least 3x & maybe 4x. In fact many boxers train at MMA gyms. And I mean its a lil silly to act like one thing & one thing only has contributed to anything so broad as the decline (not death lol) of boxing in the US.

[Chollo Vista]

Sometimes its so hard to know if people are trolling or serious here. LMFAO if you legit believe Floyd f#cked up American boxing. I think its a lil more complicated than one guy. And if Floyd is responsible for destroying American boxing then it was on shaky ass ground to begin with.

.

I'm serious when I say that Floyd has messed up American boxing. Let's look at his career in a synopsis:

"I haven't took no punishment. There's nothing cool about taking punishment."

"I've set the model of showing fighters how they should conduct their business."

When you look at his view point, from a fighters perspective, he's correct. But from a fans perspective, he's bad for business in the long run because just like everyone can't be Jordan in the NBA, everyone can't be Mayweather in boxing.

Imagine if Ali never fought Foreman because "it's nothing cool about taking punishment" or "Foreman isn't a PPV star. Until he becomes a ppv star, we can't fight".

Imagine if Tyson, Foreman, Lewis, DLH, etc all used this logic in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

Before Mayweather showed up, I remember boxing being passed from generation to generation, superstar to superstar. Whether it was Ray Robinson passing the torch to Ali and Ali passing the torch to Tyson and SRL. Or SRL/Tyson passing the torch to DLH and Roy Jones Jr, so on and so forth. You never had as many issues with big fights not happening because of the political concerns of boxing. Don't get me wrong, it happened, but not to the extent it's happened since Mayweather has been at the helm.

What's happening now is just like the torch was passed to FMJ, now FMJ has created a new ideology that previous superstars didn't receive or pass from previous and future generations. That new ideology is:

"I haven't took no punishment. There's nothing cool about taking punishment."

"I've set the model of showing fighters how they should conduct their business."

And in my opinion it's ruining the sport.

Again, I have these conversations with casuals on a daily basis. They refuse to reengage with boxing. Their reasoning has something to do with Mayweather, whether it's Mayweather vs DLH/Pac or some other issue.

I'm left trying to tell them about guys like GGG, Ward, Canelo, Spence, Crawford, etc, but they don't want to hear it. I only have a select few of fighters that are old school in mentality. And I really can't use GGG and Canelo as examples because they are now suffering from the same Mayweather business plan mentality that I'm talking about. From a fighter perspective, they are old school in mentality. But they are Mayweather business contemporaries.

[Bullrush]

I think its less to do with other sports than just the reality thats its not quite as ****ty in the US as it used to be. Generally the best fighters come from ****ty areas/backgrounds. I mean this is why Chavez Jr has Chavez Sr's genes but he ain't **** compared to his dad for anecdotal evidence. For the most part there are very few people REALLY bad off in the US. And the cats who are breed for warfare tend to get put in the system now more than ever. So the great US fighters that should be around right now were happily going to grocery stores with their mom with a SNAP card & government money & with some hope of better things & grew up soft or fine with the status quo or they are serving 20 years in a state facility not playing for the Giants. More or less thats what I think is what is behind the current less than impressive overall group of US boxers vs what we've seen in the past.

I will say that there is some catching up that other countries have done to so its not like thats the only issue. Competition coming into the pro boxing pool will obviously make getting anywhere harder.

And if any sport is taking boxers its probably MMA not the NFL or NBA. Maybe like 95% of US white guys who can fight are doing MMA these days over boxing. There are more & more US black & hispanic dudes getting into MMA every time I'm looking up prospects. And boxing & MMA have got similar weight brackets so they are more likely to be competing for the same pool of smaller athletes that don't have as many pro sport options to dream of or consider as the bigger guys do when they are kids & many people coming up see MMA more like "real fighting" thus the appeal for guys coming up is sexier than it is for boxing nowadays.

Has nothing to do with background. Athletes in general grow up piss poor, that's why they become athletes because that's the only way for them to make money. Besides I'm not sure what youre talking about when you say it's not as ****ty in the US as it used to be. It's worse than it used to be. And how do you explain boxing not having changed at all (for the worse, it might actually have improved) in the UK or Germany? They're way better off than we are. It's not about the background. You have to have the drive to be great and you have to be gifted/talented. Size also helps. But the people don't get into boxing, that's the problem. You're implying that people still do boxing, they don't. Nobody is boxing. Nobody is watching boxing. Of course it's dying. Whether or not people make money or not, their background, none of that matters. They'd still do football first, basketball, maybe MMA. Just because somebody is broke doesn't mean he's gonna get into boxing.

Secondly no, I'm talking about the heavyweights. Of course those guys are going into football and basketball, of course they're missing in boxing. Do you honestly think that somebody who is 7 feet tall, ubergifted and whanot, he's gonna take up boxing? Please. Of course he's gonna play basketball. What about smaller guys, like Mike Tyson? They go into football or wrestling because that's the **** they offer to you in school, it's convenient. They force you to do that ****, you don't just show up there whenever you feel like it. In order to get into boxing you either have to have a dad push you that way or you're one of those rare people that actually figured it out on your own.

[ShoulderRoll]

As I said in another thread, boxing is cyclical and the U.S. is currently in a downturn as we transition from the Floyd/Pacquiao era to whatever the next era is going to be.

British boxing is hot at the moment. For a while they'll probably play a big role in keeping the sport going by forking over loads of money to get foreigners over there to fight their champions. And more power to them.

But I don't expect that to last forever.

[NEETzsche]

Idk how to **** measure poor between countries, but I imagine its all relative & I can't imagine many poor people in the US give a f#ck or would have any idea that being poor in the UK would be worth ~15% or whatever more free **** than they get now.

And I'm not saying there aren't more contributing factors involved either. I think the UK has a solid amateur base & boxing gyms which is key to bringing guys along. Thats not the case in the US in most regions. In my area specifically, upstate NY, there are more MMA gyms than boxing gyms by at least 3x & maybe 4x. In fact many boxers train at MMA gyms. And I mean its a lil silly to act like one thing & one thing only has contributed to anything so broad as the decline (not death lol) of boxing in the US.

yeah i just think infrastructure and promotion are the bigger factors

i don't think american promoters are doing a good job selling their product any more, and the sport is overburdened with parasites. i really think it needs a total reset. boxing is deeply ingrained in popular culture and i think has an inherent appeal as a sport, so it will never die, but a destroy and rebuild is necessary and probably inevitable

[-PBP-]

I'm serious when I say that Floyd has messed up American boxing. Let's look at his career in a synopsis:

"I haven't took no punishment. There's nothing cool about taking punishment."

"I've set the model of showing fighters how they should conduct their business."

When you look at his view point, from a fighters perspective, he's correct. But from a fans perspective, he's bad for business in the long run because just like everyone can't be Jordan in the NBA, everyone can't be Mayweather in boxing.

Imagine if Ali never fought Foreman because "it's nothing cool about taking punishment" or "Foreman isn't a PPV star. Until he becomes a ppv star, we can't fight".

Imagine if Tyson, Foreman, Lewis, DLH, etc all used this logic in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

Before Mayweather showed up, I remember boxing being passed from generation to generation, superstar to superstar. Whether it was Ray Robinson passing the torch to Ali and Ali passing the torch to Tyson and SRL. Or SRL/Tyson passing the torch to DLH and Roy Jones Jr, so on and so forth. You never had as many issues with big fights not happening because of the political concerns of boxing. Don't get me wrong, it happened, but not to the extent it's happened since Mayweather has been at the helm.

What's happening now is just like the torch was passed to FMJ, now FMJ has created a new ideology that previous superstars didn't receive or pass from previous and future generations. That new ideology is:

"I haven't took no punishment. There's nothing cool about taking punishment."

"I've set the model of showing fighters how they should conduct their business."

And in my opinion it's ruining the sport.

Again, I have these conversations with casuals on a daily basis. They refuse to reengage with boxing. Their reasoning has something to do with Mayweather, whether it's Mayweather vs DLH/Pac or some other issue.

I'm left trying to tell them about guys like GGG, Ward, Canelo, Spence, Crawford, etc, but they don't want to hear it. I only have a select few of fighters that are old school in mentality. And I really can't use GGG and Canelo as examples because they are now suffering from the same Mayweather business plan mentality that I'm talking about. From a fighter perspective, they are old school in mentality. But they are Mayweather business contemporaries.

Mayweather learned from the people that came before him. Roy Jones conducted business the same way. But what they all have in common, is that they beat top opposition to get to that stage.

The difference is when Floyd was coming up, HBO had triple the budget to invest in him and get top fighters in the ring with him.

With their budget woes, and less money floating around in general, there less incentive for fighters to take on tough fights.

[Sledgeweather17]

Don't get me wrong they have a long history of amazing fighters but what has happened? Seriously. Come on America sort it out!

I put Shobox on last night. I've not seen a boring fight in that Cruiserweight division for the last 5 years. You could put my nan in with Usyk and it'd somehow be a good value scrap. 4 undefeated Cruiserweight contenders I was hyped to see who was going to go to to the next level and all I seen was headbutts & clinching. Literally more headbutts being thrown & clinches than punches. Pathetic.

Then it got me thinking of all their current fighters. Andre Ward bores me to tears at times but I can appreciate his skills. Apart from Ward what good fighters does America have right now or even exciting fighters?
Its all feather-fisted spoilers like not just a few most, if not all.

I'm not trying to bash American boxing, as a fan I am concerned. How do you go from Mike Tyson, Hagler, Holyfield, Bowe & all these beasts to whatever the hell you're producing right now?

All of them fight like they're in survival mode.

You've got Ward at LHW that is about it apart from what are a few prospects around light middle. Crawford, Thurman are knocking on the door we'll see in their next fights.

Is it todays trainers in America?
I know people will get butthurt over me pointing it out but surely they must see where I am coming from and be concerned because its terrible for the sport.

I think it might come down to finances as well.
Paying certain fighters excessively and others not enough. Never happen but I'd love to see a system in place also in other sports where your pay varies depending on your performances. I don't want to begrudge anybody of a payday but when you've got a great opportunity to raise your stock, you're getting paid well to fight well a nobody you probably should go out and look to make a statement or at least try.

About 5 years back America had the #1 in majority of the 17 divisions. They now have 0.
Bradley, Mayweather, Dawson, Steve Cunningham, Ward, Ortiz was there briefly, I think Rios was elevated when JMM moved up

I really do hope the '08 olympians are for real and are about to flood the world scene.

Lightweight: Robert Easter, Devonta Davis

Jr Welterweight: Adrien Broner, Amir Imam, Terrence Crawford

Welterweight: Errol Spence, Keith Thurman, Shawn Porter, Danny Garcia

Jr Middleweight: Demetrius Andrade, Jermall Charlo, Jermell Charlo

Super Middleweight: Badou Jack

Light Heavyweight: Andre Ward

Heavyweight: Deontay Wilder


So no, American boxing is not going anywhere. You're totally wrong, America, despite basketball, american football, track and field, and baseball draining America's boxing reserves, still has a lot of talent in boxing, more than anyone else out there.

However, you did raise a good point about the coaches and how soft the guys of this generation are becoming. I look at someone like Spence for example, people around him and all over actually saying that he isn't ready yet to fight against a top opponent and I'm like WTF?

How the F can an unbeaten 26 year old with 20 pro fight, who just steam rolled through a a former world champ who has never been stopped before, not be ready for a big/title fight?

You look at the greats of the past, Ali was 22 when he won his first world title, Mayweather was 21 and 17 fights into his pro career, Tyson was 21, etc etc, but nowadays we have a super talented guy like Spence, with a rich Amateur background, and 20 fights in, unbeaten, and steam rolling world class opposition in his come out party, and people out here claiming he aint ready for a title fight?

This is the kind of **** that is destroying the talent in America, guys being babied and protected way too much.

Crawford is freakin 28 but you would think he was a 20 year old prospect or something the way people talk about him being 'ready' or not 'ready' for certain fighters.

The talent is there but it is being seriously mishandled.