Do you think Andre Ward is more skilled than Mayweather?

[MurkaMan]

Those were all boxrec.

Thats what I just said idiot Lol! Boxrec doesnt know their reach and height! Those stats also claim that Floyd is taller than everyone he faced which is also, obviously, not true! Pac and JMM were the only opponents in recent times that he was taller than!

Its impressive that Floyd had such size, reach, height, and weight disadvantage, and dominated these giant young guys! TOP 3 Atg!

[MurkaMan]

Hell no, Floyd isn't a tall guy but inherited senior's reach.

His uncle was also know for having a tremendous reach.

Mayweathers are built like spiders lol

HBO or boxrec: numbers are little differents, but in both case, I always was amazed by Floyd's datas (arm lenght and reach of 72').
Now, maybe the Mayweathers crew gave fake numbers.
But Floyd's arms/his height always looked very long to me.


Whatever, boxing isn't a reach/size contest, Mayweather is before anything, a tremendous competitor and an amazing athlete.

I dont care about his uncles or his pops!

I think for myself and based off of what I seen, he is WAAAY smaller, with shorter arms than everyone he faces! Pac and JMM are the only ones he had a size or reach advantage over!

[MurkaMan]

I assume you are trolling...

1) Yes, Floyd has very long arms. Longer than pretty much all the people he faced.

2) Floyd wasn't outweighed by 15 lbs. Just not true. In some cases 10 lbs, in some cases 5 lbs. But that's it. Floyd doesn't give the real fight night weight. He is not 150, he's more likely around 153-155 at WW and 160 when he fights at JMW.

Wrongemundo! Their is absolutely no way that Floyd's arms were longer than Canelo or Ghost, or anyone he's faced except JMM and Pac!

I judge that based on how they look in the ring! Canelo and Ghost towered over Floyd! Wayyy longer arms than Floyd! The stats also say Floyd is taller, which is also obviously not true!

His size, reach, and height disadvantage is why I have him Top 3 atg! And Floyd SOMETIMES doesnt do a fight night weight! But he SOMETIMES does! He is 150lbs on most nights, and 148-149 on others!

And he LOOKS like a person in that weight range as well! Also on WWE, he stood on a scale with a bunch of clothes and ***elry on and was 156! Highest he has weighed in boxing, was for the weigh in vs Cotto! He was 152lbs!

[-PBP-]

Never thought about it. Hard to gauge.

[Pigeons]

Andre Ward makes the Europeans so mad. Even though America's domination of the sport is waning, Andre Ward is still set to assume the P4P throne in November and he will carry that torch for years to come.

As hard as they try, they just can't knock America off the top. Sure we've had stretches where Chavez and Pacquiao were #1, but by and large an American has always returned to the throne that is rightfully ours.

Since 1990 (last 26 years) end of year P4P ranks:
USA has ruled for 18 years
Pacquiao for 4
Chavez for 3
Gonzalez for 1

[bojangles1987]

Than Mayweather right now? There's an argument. Certainly not more skilled than prime Mayweather, though. It's not a huge blowout or anything but prime Floyd was clearly more skilled.

[Johnwoo8686]

I'm white and european.

Don't judge me, you don't know who I am, what I have done in my life.

I guess it's too difficult for you to understand skills and power are 2 different aspects of the game.

Yes Ward (olympic gold medalist, undefeated as a pro with a tremendous record) is more skilled than Gamboa or Rigo.
That's a pretty much obvious fact for any person who understands the sport decently.

Ward is better than Gamboa but no way is he better than Rigo. He might only be better on the inside. But when it comes to adjustments, controlling range, and balance, Rigo is way better than Ward.

By the way this thread needs a poll.

[Redd Foxx]

I am not ignoring the difference in size, you have a point to some respect as I agree it is harder to achieve such precise movements the bigger you are and go through weights the higher you get and generally fighters have higher outputs in the lower divisions. BUT you make a point of smaller fighters not punching as hard so their chins look better? How about the fact that bigger men are able to sustain bigger shots and have better chins? You are ignoring one whole side of the argument, thus detracting from your whole point. Pound for pound doesn't just factor the attributes which help suit your argument it applies to everything being relative and equal. Plus one thing you seem to have ignored is that Floyd was taking punches from fighters at least 2 or 3 natural weights bigger than him, and these guys were huge dangerous punchers at those higher weights to boot. The one thing I will give you is as you go up in weight the ability to change a fight with one punch does become more evident because the human head is not designed to be hit with that much force, but I would say that applies to heavyweight more than anything else.

Its all opinion and speculation anyway, because if you theorise Floyd as a fighter of similar stature and size to Ward - what type of power does he have at that weight? You would assume he would have the relative type of power he had in his first 2 or 3 weight divisions so 140 or below as Ward is currently in his second weight division 7 pounds up from his original 168. 7 pounds up from Floyd's original fighting weight would be around 137, at that weight and against fighters of that size Floyd had dangerous power capable of stopping fighters with anything less than a stellar chin.

I also don't understand why you think Floyd wouldn't be able to do the things he could at higher weights if he was a bigger fighter? The angles don't change, he would still be faster than everyone else, he would still be a defensive genius, he would still have all the attributes he does now just in a bigger frame. In many ways his style may have worked better at higher weights I think. I don't underestimate Ward at all, he is currently one of my fav fighters. I grew up in the bay area and have supported him since Kessler, but I also call a spade a spade and Ward just is not as precise or quite as accurate as Floyd with his skills, and those skills and that talent took him through 5 weight divisions or lets say 24 pounds without defeat. That is just my opinion and I am not ignoring their relative size difference and what that entails.

Put it his way and its an easier comparison, I don't think Ward was quite as pinpoint or as fast as Roy Jones for example nor did he hit as hard Roy. I would say Floyd is closer to Roy in terms of talent then Ward. Ward is a great talent and a very smart fighter - but Roy and Floyd are phenom's, once in a generation and between the 3 of them I still think Floyd shades it as the most complete fighter because he is kind of a hybrid of the other two in my opinion, although in his prime Roy may have been the hardest to beat. But you literally find yourself nitpicking between these guys because you have to, as they are that great that there is very little to criticise or separate them.

I don't have sufficient time to address all points but
1) It doesn't scale that way regarding chins. The numbers show that KO's are highest among larger fighters.
2) Floyd has fought a few larger guys but I'm not one of these guys who pretends he was a David among Goliaths. The original point you made of one having a better chin than the other was pretty pointless anyway, IMO, as neither have shown weakness in that area. I rate their chins equally.
3) The last is simply a matter of science. Smaller individuals are generally going to be more flexible, quick, have greater stamina, etc. This all comes in to play when executing technique. There's a reason smaller guys can hop in and out of range more easily, throw quicker, etc, etc. If Floyd (and his opponents) were 30lbs bigger he's have to adjust his technique a bit to accommodate.

Linear comparisons don't work here. You have to scale it, which requires a bit of insight and speculation since physical mechanics are involved. I see them as being equal in skill/talent. You don't. Fair enough.

[ianjamsie]

Thats what I just said idiot Lol! Boxrec doesnt know their reach and height! Those stats also claim that Floyd is taller than everyone he faced which is also, obviously, not true! Pac and JMM were the only opponents in recent times that he was taller than!

Its impressive that Floyd had such size, reach, height, and weight disadvantage, and dominated these giant young guys! TOP 3 Atg!

Boxrec does state height and reach.

He was taller than Hatton as well, but that was probably a while ago.

[MurkaMan]

Boxrec does state height and reach.

He was taller than Hatton as well, but that was probably a while ago.

No, no, no! I said I dont trust their stats! You know exactly what I did say, and exactly what I didnt say!

I know that they state false height and reach stats!
They also state that he is bigger than Canelo, Ghost, Ortiz, Shane, Marcos, which is simply asinine! He aint close to being taller than any of them and no way is his arms longer!