The Penalty For Being Too Good (Rigondeaux, Golovkin, Ward)

[daggum]

GGG avoided Ward because he is taller, bigger, is highly skilled, and would likely beat him because GGG has never fought someone as good as Ward. Without an undefeated record, casual fans will not buy into HBO's marketing of him as "the most avoided monster" in the sport and almost surely reduces the amount of money to be made in the Canelo/GGG PPV.

It's really simple. Bringing up ward/bute and Floyd/spinks is just deflection.

ok that's your opinion but unfortunately the facts on who ducked who are out there and they don't support your claims at all. like i said you are biased so i wouldn't expect you to agree. you don't think ward ducked bute but think ggg ducked ward. reality says that makes no sense. ward turns down career high payday against guy in his division and you say its not ducking? lmfao! ggg pursues super ppv fight against canelo instead of ward and its ducking? yea not biased though...

its not defelction at all. its making an analogy about how an unpopular fighter doesn't usually dictate to a much popular fighter. i used floyd since you love to defend floyd but now when its another popular fighter that you don't like you change your tune exposing your hypocrisy.

[The Big Dunn]

ggg and froch 2 fights were offered to him and he said no. by the time ggg became wbc mandatory it was obvious ggg was no longer moving up(at least for a ward fight since its not a huge fight) and he also said he was staying at 160 so if he was waiting that was dumb.

was he waiting for chavez jr? hmmm maybe yet if we look at ward's actions i think we can find out what he was doing. he wanted easy fights for big money. look at the guys he was trying to fight. periban, saritson, truax etc...he thought he would be able to milk his status and unfortunately for him it didn't work. that is not what ggg is doing so comparing them is silly.

ok that's your opinion but unfortunately the facts on who ducked who are out there and they don't support your claims at all. like i said you are biased so i wouldn't expect you to agree. you don't think ward ducked bute but think ggg ducked ward. reality says that makes no sense. its not defelction at all. its making an analogy about how an unpopular fighter doesn't usually dictate to a much popular fighter. i used floyd since you love to defend floyd but now when its another popular fighter that you don't like you change your tune exposing your hypocrisy.

See the bold above. That ******* is saying the same thing I am. He knows GGG avoided a ward fight but was more than willing to entertain other fights that were more profitable.

why are you lying by saying I posted something I didn't. I gave no opinion on ward/Bute as it has no bearing on this discussion. Floyd has no bearing on the discussion either.

GGG didn't pursue a super fight with Canelo instead of fighting ward. he pursued 168 fights with froch and chavez jr. instead of ward and then when ward was possible, he and his team suddenly wanted to focus solely on unification.

You are correct, popular fighters dictate. the difference is GGG's popularity and ability to earn are not as significant as you are making it seem.

The only hypocrite is you. You have been very critical of fighters that choose money over challenge, yet have never criticized GGG for doing the same thing.

[-PBP-]

As for Rigo, I absolutely disagree with you. The reason that Golovkin is a 34 year old who still has a 'trash resume' and is chasing a big fight is because he dealt with promotional issues in his prime years. Universum screwed him big time. Do you see him b1tching and moaning how he's a fighter and not a promoter? How the world is not fair?
No, he won a lawsuit against his promoter and left them. He packed his bags and moved to the United States. He's been training year around, traveling the world to establish his name, and fighting the best fighters that agree to fight him.

If it was true that Rigo's problems are caused by his promoters, he should have changed promoters. End of story. But that's not even true. Here's an article that talks about Rigo's issues:


So again, besides me being a GGG fan, what exactly do you have a problem with?

So let's say he does change promoters. Does that make Frampton or Quigg fight him? Would that soften Leo Santa Cruz's demand of $3 million to fight him? Absolutely not. There are no promotional barriers preventing Rigondeaux from fighting Carl Framption right now. He's being avoided because he is too good.

You mention these multi-million dollar offers...well...HE JUST ****ING SIGNED ONE WITH THE PEOPLE HYDE WAS WORKING WITH!!!! What has changed???

It's the same damn situation except: GGG knocks people out. Rigo is a boxer and outpoints guys. So the guy that knocks people out is the easier sell.

[Eff Pandas]

Solid take on the reality these tip top exceptional fighters have to deal with.

[daggum]

See the bold above. That ******* is saying the same thing I am. He knows GGG avoided a ward fight but was more than willing to entertain other fights that were more profitable.

I gave no opinion on ward/Bute as it has no bearing on this discussion. Floyd has no bearing on the discussion either.

You are correct, popular fighters dictate. the difference is GGG's popularity and ability to earn are not as significant as you are making him out to be.

The only hypocrite is you. You have been very critical of fighters that choose money over challenge, yet have never criticized GGG for doing the same thing.

you don't know what you are talking about unfortunately. i never said there's a problem with making big money. where did i say that? why are you makign things up? i don't understand why you would do that? just cause you are losing an argument?

you don't even know what a duck is. a duck is when there are 2 top fighters in the same division and one fighter offers the other a career high payday and the other fighter says no. examples: floyd-margarito, ggg-saunders, ward-bute.

i was exposing your hypocrisy because you were the one that made the claim that ggg ducked ward so the burden is on you to prove that claim. i can easily counter your claim by pointing out how you don't feel other fights were ducks when their is 100 times more evidence to support that it was a duck. so in the end what is a duck is entirely up to bigdunn and that's not a great system that i'm personally willing to follow since its entirely subjective. i have my own system and that's why the above fights i mentioned were ducks and the ones that you think are ducks are only ducks in your head since your duck system is so arbitrary.

[Jsmooth9876]

GGG didn't duck Ward. He had an opportunity to knock off a top fighter in a bigger division and he passed on it because he took the gamble on the Canelo fight.

Ward did the same thing. He passed on 175 for many years hoping to land Chavez Jr., GGG or a Froch rematch but his gamble didn't pay off. At least he's moved up now and we'll see where he goes from here.

Good original post and this one should shut all the "GGG ducked Ward" people up..

Why was GGG gonna sign to fight Ward in like 15 months when he has a potential fight with Canelo lined up for probably 5x the $$

There's a reason he would have fought Froch and Chavez Jr. And it's called money... The risk Ward brought was not worth the reward..at least not with the Canelo fight possible...if GGG didn't have any options in Cotto or Canelo then yeah he should have been called a ducker....

But it's the same guys who said manny should have just taken the $40 million offer that say GGG should have just signed for a 50-50 with Ward 15 months in advance lol..

[daggum]

See the bold above. That ******* is saying the same thing I am. He knows GGG avoided a ward fight but was more than willing to entertain other fights that were more profitable.

why are you lying by saying I posted something I didn't. I gave no opinion on ward/Bute as it has no bearing on this discussion. Floyd has no bearing on the discussion either.

GGG didn't pursue a super fight with Canelo instead of fighting ward. he pursued 168 fights with froch and chavez jr. instead of ward and then when ward was possible, he and his team suddenly wanted to focus solely on unification.

You are correct, popular fighters dictate. the difference is GGG's popularity and ability to earn are not as significant as you are making it seem.

The only hypocrite is you. You have been very critical of fighters that choose money over challenge, yet have never criticized GGG for doing the same thing.

you aren't being honest with yourself. its sad to see really. you know ggg tried to fight ward and froch years ago and they both said no. you know ggg became mandatory to the wbc in november of 2014. he didn't suddenly wanted to focus on unification. why make up wild stories about how he suddently wanted to focus on unification? you see this is bias. i wouldn't say ward suddenlty wanted to fight bums without evidence. we have evidence on who he tried to fight and why hbo turned them down. please follow the sequence of events before posting wild conjecture.

[-DSG-]

The thing that hurts Rigo as opposed to Golovkin and Ward is he has no network or big promoter to help back him.

[Irony123]

I completely agree with the idea. Each fighter had their own challenges because of how good they are, only thing i will say is that Ward is out of place in this conversation. Yes he is very good but i don't recall anyone ducking him (unless you consider GGG not taking the fight as ducking).

Whoever wanted to fight Ward had to make concessions, also it is well documented that there are a handful of high profile fighters who wanted to fight Ward and it was usually Ward who didn't want to fight someone (i.e. Bute, Stevenson, Degale... Degale might have not been possible but the other two sure were)

Without getting into it to specifically Rigo and GGG are in the same boat.

PBP, how do you feel that Ward was punished for being too good?

[The Big Dunn]

you don't know what you are talking about unfortunately. i never said there's a problem with making big money. where did i say that? why are you makign things up? i don't understand why you would do that? just cause you are losing an argument?

you don't even know what a duck is. a duck is when there are 2 top fighters in the same division and one fighter offers the other a career high payday and the other fighter says no. examples: floyd-margarito, ggg-saunders, ward-bute.

i was exposing your hypocrisy because you were the one that made the claim that ggg ducked ward so the burden is on you to prove that claim. i can easily counter your claim by pointing out how you don't feel other fights were ducks when their is 100 times more evidence to support that it was a duck. so in the end what is a duck is entirely up to bigdunn and that's not a great system that i'm personally willing to follow since its entirely subjective. i have my own system and that's why the above fights i mentioned were ducks and the ones that you think are ducks are only ducks in your head since your duck system is so arbitrary.

I didn't post you had a problem with big money, I posted you criticized fighters for taking money over challenge. You can't change what I posted then try and argue that. STcik to the point being made.

I never said GGG ducked anyone, so clearly I know the definition of the word. If this is what you define a duck as fine. Funny, when other posters said Manny ducked Floyd after Floyd offered him his highest payday ever ($40 mil, no ppv) you said it wasn't a duck. SO clearly the issue is your hypocrisy.

I never posted GGG ducked Ward, so why would I have to prove it?

I said HBO steered Ward away from GGG and proved that by pointing out what Lampley said on air and on TFG. I posted GGG avoided Ward and cited his unwillingness to fight Ward at 168 but his willing ness to fight Chavez or Froch.

I never use the word duck so for you to say I apply it subjectively is simply untrue. All you are doing is deflecting away from the initial point I made because it is critical of GGG.