The HBO Budget Crisis and What it Means

[IMDAZED]

I agree that he's not being "wronged", but he is being avoided.

I hate the prevalence of catchweights, especially with someone like Canelo, who relies on them...but Hopkins made the weight concession to fight DLH, and if Golovkin wants to fight Canelo he may have to do the same.

He's being avoided and he's avoiding as well. He wanted a catchweight against Ward but now it's about the sanctity of a title when he's asked to do the same to Canelo.

But you pretty much agree -- he has to make some sort of sacrifice in order to get a big fight. That's how it goes. Maybe two years from now he'll feel different but, as it stands today, he seems pretty content picking up nice checks for beating up less than stellar opposition.

[HeroBando]

A retired Froch does not equal a prime Castillo.

Oh wait, a prime Froch does not equal a prime Castillo.

Fighting Castillo was about taking over 135. Fighting Froch was strictly a money maker for GGG.

Nice excuses though.

Wasn't retired then. Was runaway #1 active SMW, p4p ranked everywhere. Very risky fight for unproven MW, esp in the UK.

[HeroBando]

Andre Ward sent an offer for 50/50 last summer

He probably meant good faith offer. For one, bigger B siders never get 50/50. But worse yet, he wanted a commitment a year ahead right around the time the Canelo mando was due.

[bballchump11]

He probably meant good faith offer. For one, bigger B siders never get 50/50. But worse yet, he wanted a commitment a year ahead right around the time the Canelo mando was due.

They're drawing power aren't that far apart. Check GGG's ratings on HBO to Ward's. Ward had 1.3 million people watch his fight vs Dawson. Plus Ward gets paid more than GGG. And Canelo hadn't even fought Cotto yet when Ward made that offer.

Personally I don't blame GGG for not taking it as unifying the title should be his first priority, but he did in fact turn down a fight with Ward. The reasons for turning him down were mostly BS too (like the garbage 164lb catchweight).

[Mitchell Kane]

He's being avoided and he's avoiding as well. He wanted a catchweight against Ward but now it's about the sanctity of a title when he's asked to do the same to Canelo.

But you pretty much agree -- he has to make some sort of sacrifice in order to get a big fight. That's how it goes. Maybe two years from now he'll feel different but, as it stands today, he seems pretty content picking up nice checks for beating up less than stellar opposition.

I would take a slight exception with this.

I don't know how common it is to consider it "avoiding" someone just by electing NOT to move up in weight to fight a bigger fighter who's also a higher ranked p4p fighter.

Would Golovkin have been more willing to move up in weight to fight a guy like JCC Jr. than Ward? Yeah, but then Roy Jones Jr. was more willing to move up to fight John Ruiz than Mike Tyson or Lennox Lewis. Penell Whitaker was more willing to move up to 154 to fight Julio Cesar Vasquez than some other junior middleweights.

That seems far different from what's going on with Canelo, who has carved out a whole new weight class for himself because he doesn't want to fight at 160.

What Canelo is doing is shameless.

But even if it is shameless, Golovkin may well have to agree to fight him at that weight if he wants the fight.

[HeroBando]

They're drawing power aren't that far apart. Check GGG's ratings on HBO to Ward's. Ward had 1.3 million people watch his fight vs Dawson. Plus Ward gets paid more than GGG. And Canelo hadn't even fought Cotto yet when Ward made that offer.

Personally I don't blame GGG for not taking it as unifying the title should be his first priority, but he did in fact turn down a fight with Ward. The reasons for turning him down were mostly BS too (like the garbage 164lb catchweight).

At some point Ward was the A side but you can't seriously maintain theres still parity

[Mitchell Kane]

They're drawing power aren't that far apart. Check GGG's ratings on HBO to Ward's. Ward had 1.3 million people watch his fight vs Dawson. Plus Ward gets paid more than GGG. And Canelo hadn't even fought Cotto yet when Ward made that offer.

Personally I don't blame GGG for not taking it as unifying the title should be his first priority, but he did in fact turn down a fight with Ward. The reasons for turning him down were mostly BS too (like the garbage 164lb catchweight).

It seems a long ways from the days when Ward was pulling those figures.

He may still be able to do those numbers, but I don't think HBO is as interested in him now as they used to be.

Because of budget reasons, HBO is more selective in what fighters they back these days and they clearly seem to prefer the style of a Golovkin, Kovalev, Gonzalez, which isn't Ward's style.

If HBO didn't need an opponent for Kovalev, I'm not sure they'd be as interested in Ward...and that seems evident with how they've handled Ward recently.

[IMDAZED]

I would take a slight exception with this.

I don't know how common it is to consider it "avoiding" someone just by electing NOT to move up in weight to fight a bigger fighter who's also a higher ranked p4p fighter.

I know what you mean. Why? Because you could make a pretty good case that Canelo is not avoiding GGG for those same reasons. Sure he's at 155lbs, but that doesn't make him a middleweight just like GGG isn't a super middleweight just because he fought over 160 a couple times several years ago.

Would Golovkin have been more willing to move up in weight to fight a guy like JCC Jr. than Ward? Yeah, but then Roy Jones Jr. was more willing to move up to fight John Ruiz than Mike Tyson or Lennox Lewis. Penell Whitaker was more willing to move up to 154 to fight Julio Cesar Vasquez than some other junior middleweights.

Terrible comparison. Roy Jones had already run through three divisions before moving to HW. And for the record, when he moved to 168 he had one tune-up before taking on the #3 p4p fighter in Toney.

The Whitaker comparison is also terrible. That was Pea's fifth division? How do you compare these to GGG being unable to move up eight pounds? You can't. Jones and Whitaker took those kind of risks with ease and then took MORE. GGG, on the other hand, has not beaten a single elite opponent, has not moved up a single division and, most important, would rather take on no-hoper after no-hoper than to make some sort of sacrifice in order to secure a big fight. Maybe two years from now at 36 he will as you mentioned. But for now, call it what it is.

[Mitchell Kane]

Sure he's at 155lbs, but that doesn't make him a middleweight

No, but holding the MIDDLEWEGHT title and defending that title does.

And 155 isn't a division.

Terrible comparison. Roy Jones had already run through three divisions before moving to HW.

We're not comparing their entire careers, we're comparing one specific act of selectively moving up in weight.

Roy Jones Jr. was a light heavyweight before and after the John Ruiz fight.

Therefore he was a light heavyweight.

The Whitaker comparison is also terrible. That was Pea's fifth division?

The number of divisions is irrelevent.

He was a welterweight before and after the Vasquez fight.

Therefore, he was a welterweight.

Juan Manuel Marquez did basically the same thing moving up to fight Mayweather, and his actions more closely resemble what Golovkin-JCC Jr. would have been, because Marquez was doing it for the money, not for a title.

[IMDAZED]

No, but holding the MIDDLEWEGHT title and defending that title does.

And 155 isn't a division.

Let's be real.This isn't about a belt. GGG wants Canelo, not the belt. A big fight, not the belt.

We're not comparing their entire careers, we're comparing one specific act of selectively moving up in weight.

Roy Jones Jr. was a light heavyweight before and after the John Ruiz fight.

Therefore he was a light heavyweight.



The number of divisions is irrelevent.

He was a welterweight before and after the Vasquez fight.

Therefore, he was a welterweight.

Of course it's relevant. GGG hasn't moved up one division. Next.

Juan Manuel Marquez did basically the same thing moving up to fight Mayweather, and his actions more closely resemble what Golovkin-JCC Jr. would have been, because Marquez was doing it for the money, not for a title.

You mean Marquez conceded all? I agree.