The HBO Budget Crisis and What it Means

[Mitchell Kane]

The UFC got $100m, for 40 shows, yet still sell 12 PPVs every year; largely because they proved that they could deliver that 18-49 audience.

50 fight cards (with Haymon putting on 2 PPVs per year, if that) at $2m per card, gets you to $100m. Once you sit and look at it, the numbers aren't as extremely optimistic as one would figure at first blush.

The UFC deal brought a lot more more content to FOX than just live fights, content that the PBC does not yet have.

Apples to oranges.

[BlakBread904]

the divide thawing would be the worst thing for boxing. HBO is finally on the ropes. we have a legitimate shot in the next 5-10 years of all the top fighters ending up under the same umbrella.

this is what the sport has desperately needed for decades.

once HBO is out of the equation and haymon controls everything, the sport will finally be able to deliver whatever fights the fans want whenever the fans want them.

the NFL & AFL merged for a reason. the NBA & ABA merged for a reason. the public wants one league, not two.

the best thing for boxing is one winner in this war, not a "thawing" that brings us right back where we were.

this is the dumbest thing I read all day. And I have a lot of down time during the day to read.

1) The American sports leagues didn't merge because the public called for it (and never did FYI), they merged because (competing and overpaying for talent) it kept more money in owners' pockets

2) Boxing is a sport not at all like any professional leagues, because most of all...while you can play football or basketball, you don't play boxing. life and death every time someone gets in the ring. More than entertainment its a business, and no match is ever guaranteed to go off. Look at how Thurman/Porter just got canceled. That's not happening in the NFL or NBA. If Tom Brady or Lebron James can't play sunday because of a car accident, the game still goes on.

Forgot to mention:

2b) Don't assume Haymon will make any and every match to please the fans. This is boxing, to quote GGG. Still a business. If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense


Please, go play in traffic. Preferably during rush hour.

[Scipio2009]

CBS Sports is a weak sports network that does very small ratings numbers....doubt they'd be able to offer much in the way of a budget.



SHO's boxing audience has been decimated and Haymon has almost no PPV fighters and very few PPV prospects.

It may be a long time before SHO PPV becomes viable.

-What was FS1 before the UFC deal, though? Honestly not much better.

If CBS decides that they want to expand the network, what faster way to do than to have CBS Sports Network add a lot of the smaller shows and re-airs of the shoulder programming (could throw in re-airs of fights that end up on CBS)?

-Al Haymon has Deontay Wilder (big-punching American heavyweight champion with charisma), Danny Garcia (1st generation Phillyrican, from the inner city, with the good looks and ability to promo in English and Spanish), and Errol Spence Jr (blue-chip young fighter, who has the makings of being the goods) as potential PPV fighters, with an absolute motherload of possible young talents to break through (Pritchard Colon was started to flash star/PPV potential, and he's 1 or maybe 100).

There's no need to rush into anything right now (Wilder-Fury/Klitschko will definitely be a PPV fight), but the path is there for a enough guys, imo.

[Scipio2009]

The UFC deal brought a lot more more content to FOX than just live fights, content that the PBC does not yet have.

Apples to oranges.

Not really; both en****** are still selling fights. PBC doesn't have T.U.F. to offer, but PBC 'Corner to Corner' can be used to market the 10 Saturday primetime fight cards, and it's not like there isn't enough on-air talent in the fold to put forward highlight shows, recap shows, etc, especially if it's all within Showtime/CBS.

[Dr Rumack]

They want to talk about inflated.

https://twitter.com/danrafaelespn/status/662715708329975808?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Per Nevada commission, #BradleyRios purses: Bradley $1.9M, Rios $800k, Lomachenko $750k, Koasicha $35k #boxing

— Dan Rafael (@danrafaelespn) November 6, 2015

That's apples and oranges. Premium networks can afford to pay much bigger purses. That's why boxing moved to them in both the US and the UK. Now whether or not they will continue to do so into the future is another question.

I do think Scipio2009 might have a point about the UFC paying less than they can afford to fighters. It's certainly possible that the guys getting 20-50k could get double that without taking too much out of Dana's pockets. But given the ratings Haymon is getting at the moment I still don't see how the ad revenue is stacking up against premium network type purses. If it's balanced with mega-ppv events like it is in the UFC then maybe it could work. But those take time to build, and besides I thought PBC was against the ppv model anyway.

Hard to know really. I think individual PBC shows are losing a lot of money. But I have no idea what their breakeven point is or what they need to do to get a network deal. There's not enough data to know that. We'll have to wait and see. But it sucks having to live with such a divided sport in the meantime.

[bballchump11]

That's apples and oranges. Premium networks can afford to pay much bigger purses. That's why boxing moved to them in both the US and the UK. Now whether or not they will continue to do so into the future is another question.

I do think Scipio2009 might have a point about the UFC paying less than they can afford to fighters. It's certainly possible that the guys getting 20-50k could get double that without taking too much out of Dana's pockets. But given the ratings Haymon is getting at the moment I still don't see how the ad revenue is stacking up against premium network type purses. If it's balanced with mega-ppv events like it is in the UFC then maybe it could work. But those take time to build, and besides I thought PBC was against the ppv model anyway.

Hard to know really. I think individual PBC shows are losing a lot of money. But I have no idea what their breakeven point is or what they need to do to get a network deal. There's not enough data to know that. We'll have to wait and see. But it sucks having to live with such a divided sport in the meantime.

Yeah I fully understand that, but people were saying in a general sense that Haymon always has these expensive cards and over pays his fighters. Bradley isn't a bigger draw than Danny Garcia, but Danny never got paid more than 1.5 million.

[Mitchell Kane]

Not really; both en****** are still selling fights. PBC doesn't have T.U.F. to offer, but PBC 'Corner to Corner' can be used to market the 10 Saturday primetime fight cards, and it's not like there isn't enough on-air talent in the fold to put forward highlight shows, recap shows, etc, especially if it's all within Showtime/CBS.

How many Corner to Corner episodes has the PBC made?

FOX televises a a lot more than just The Ultimate Fighter.

Here's some of the UFC programming on the FOX schedules the next few days:

UFC Unleashed
UFC Countdown
UFC Ultimate Insider
UFC Reloaded
UFC Tonight
UFC Weigh-ins

[Mitchell Kane]

What was FS1 before the UFC deal, though?

FS1 wasn't even around when FOX made the UFC deal.

If CBS decides that they want to expand the network, what faster way to do than to have CBS Sports Network add a lot of the smaller shows and re-airs of the shoulder programming (could throw in re-airs of fights that end up on CBS)?

CBS Sports Network does small ratings, and there's very few sports rights they could buy that would significantly increase those ratings.

It's hard for even FS1 do go good ratings, and they're spending a lot more money than CBS Sports Network would likely do.

CBS Sports Network does re-air some fights, of I believe both SHO and PBC, but it's doubtful either do much in the ratings.

Deontay Wilder

He's not a big draw yet, and he could lose his next fight.

Danny Garcia

He's been one of the best draws on SHO/PBC, but he's also flirted with losses in some recent fights. I don't consider his long-term prospects to be all that great.

Errol Spence

He's a solid prospect but I don't think he's a great of a prospect, certainly not an elite one like some believe he is.

[Scipio2009]

How many Corner to Corner episodes has the PBC made?

FOX televises a a lot more than just The Ultimate Fighter.

Here's some of the UFC programming on the FOX schedules the next few days:

UFC Unleashed
UFC Countdown
UFC Ultimate Insider
UFC Reloaded
UFC Tonight
UFC Weigh-ins

So PBC can't develop that same shoulder programming? 'PBC Unleashed', if you will? methinks not.

[Scipio2009]

FS1 wasn't even around when FOX made the UFC deal.



CBS Sports Network does small ratings, and there's very few sports rights they could buy that would significantly increase those ratings.

It's hard for even FS1 do go good ratings, and they're spending a lot more money than CBS Sports Network would likely do.

CBS Sports Network does re-air some fights, of I believe both SHO and PBC, but it's doubtful either do much in the ratings.



He's not a big draw yet, and he could lose his next fight.



He's been one of the best draws on SHO/PBC, but he's also flirted with losses in some recent fights. I don't consider his long-term prospects to be all that great.



He's a solid prospect but I don't think he's a great of a prospect, certainly not an elite one like some believe he is.

-Deontay Wilder has an 18k-seat building in Alabama that he can call home, in addition to 14k people coming out to see Wilder-Szpilka at the Barclays Center (Szpilka deserving credit for that as well); he's not Mayweather yet, but he's most definitely a draw.

-Garcia, flirting with defeat, also adds another angle to his arc. Personally, I think Garcia's longterm prospects are better than you think.

-Will simply have to agree to disagree about Erroll Spence Jr