how is come Leo Santa Cruz not in Rings Magazine/ESPN top 10 P4P list

[ИATAS]

LSC is a three division champion but what does that even mean? Did he beat the best fighters in his divisions? No, we already know he turned down Rigondeaux and didn't attempt to fight top guys.

He won a vacant 118 pound belt against 20-3-1 Vusi Malinga. Who sucks and was KOd in one round by Hozumi Hasegawa just a couple fights before and since has lost three more fights.

He won a vacant 122 pound belt against 36-4 Alexander Munoz. Who had just lost to Koki Kameda.

He won a vacant 126 pound belt against Abner Mares. His best win which to me isn't that impressive since Mares hasn't looked nearly as good as he did before he moved up in weight.

That's three vacant titles. Looks like the Adrien Broner blueprint but worse (at least DeMarco was a legit champion). He didn't fight the best. He didn't dominate any division and he admittedly avoided top fighters. Why on earth should he be ranked highly?

Why would you say that? he has fought and beaten better competition and proved his worth

Is that the only criteria now to determine who would win a fight, resume? Donaire beat better fighters than Rigondeaux and had a better resume, did that mean Donaire beat Rigondeaux? Of course not. Just watch LSC fight and compare that to Golovkin. Who's the better fighter? If your say LSC you're lying to yourself and you know it. Besides, LSC doesn't have some amazing resume here, he beat Abner Mares big deal, Mares hasn't been the same guy since moving up in weight, which was pretty obvious when he got KOd in one round. What else has he done, won some vacant titles because he has a manager powerful enough to line them up? I'm sorry I'm not impressed and fighters who avoid the top fighters in the division should not be praised or rewarded. That should count against them.

[kingstip9]

LSC is a three division champion but what does that even mean? Did he beat the best fighters in his divisions? No, we already know he turned down Rigondeaux and didn't attempt to fight top guys.

He won a vacant 118 pound belt against 20-3-1 Vusi Malinga. Who sucks and was KOd in one round by Hozumi Hasegawa just a couple fights before and since has lost three more fights.

He won a vacant 122 pound belt against 36-4 Alexander Munoz. Who had just lost to Koki Kameda.

He won a vacant 126 pound belt against Abner Mares. His best win which to me isn't that impressive since Mares hasn't looked nearly as good as he did before he moved up in weight.

That's three vacant titles. Looks like the Adrien Broner blueprint but worse (at least DeMarco was a legit champion). He didn't fight the best. He didn't dominate any division and he admittedly avoided top fighters. Why on earth should he be ranked highly?




Is that the only criteria now to determine who would win a fight, resume? Donaire beat better fighters than Rigondeaux and had a better resume, did that mean Donaire beat Rigondeaux? Of course not. Just watch LSC fight and compare that to Golovkin. Who's the better fighter? If your say LSC you're lying to yourself and you know it. Besides, LSC doesn't have some amazing resume here, he beat Abner Mares big deal, Mares hasn't been the same guy since moving up in weight, which was pretty obvious when he got KOd in one round. What else has he done, won some vacant titles because he has a manager powerful enough to line them up? I'm sorry I'm not impressed and fighters who avoid the top fighters in the division should not be praised or rewarded. That should count against them.

Excellent points, solid post

[j0zef]

NATAS wins again.

While Larry is still whining about Pascal not realizing there's noone in LHW that wants to fight Kov.

[MDPopescu]

He ducked Rigondoe ........................

[ramses07]

His best win is a guy that got KOd in one round

Tbh abner mares has a better resume

[Chrismart]

His resume is weak, and when compared skill/ability wise, he doesn't match up to the other guys on the P4P list.

He's miles away from being a P4P fighter.

[therealpugilist]

Leo Santa Cruz is Undefeated 3 division world champion and has a win over a star opponent in Abner Mares....


Leo Santa Cruz record sh!+ all over Golovkin & Bud Crawford records....

Leo Santa Cruz is a featherweight Antonio Margarito....Has a great chin, stamina and heart and is lacking in the skill and power department

He is probably one of the more limited, legitimate 3 divison titlists I've seen in some time and isnt gonna be on any p4p lists unless he beats Rigo, Loma, Russell, Selby, etc....He'll def take a few L's fighting all the top guys at 122 and 126

as far as GGG's resume goes.....Most of the best in each division has a resume better than HIS...for a fighter with so much hype, its severely lacking top shelf opponents

[therealpugilist]

LSC is a three division champion but what does that even mean? Did he beat the best fighters in his divisions? No, we already know he turned down Rigondeaux and didn't attempt to fight top guys.

He won a vacant 118 pound belt against 20-3-1 Vusi Malinga. Who sucks and was KOd in one round by Hozumi Hasegawa just a couple fights before and since has lost three more fights.

He won a vacant 122 pound belt against 36-4 Alexander Munoz. Who had just lost to Koki Kameda.

He won a vacant 126 pound belt against Abner Mares. His best win which to me isn't that impressive since Mares hasn't looked nearly as good as he did before he moved up in weight.

That's three vacant titles. Looks like the Adrien Broner blueprint but worse (at least DeMarco was a legit champion). He didn't fight the best. He didn't dominate any division and he admittedly avoided top fighters. Why on earth should he be ranked highly?




Is that the only criteria now to determine who would win a fight, resume? Donaire beat better fighters than Rigondeaux and had a better resume, did that mean Donaire beat Rigondeaux? Of course not. Just watch LSC fight and compare that to Golovkin. Who's the better fighter? If your say LSC you're lying to yourself and you know it. Besides, LSC doesn't have some amazing resume here, he beat Abner Mares big deal, Mares hasn't been the same guy since moving up in weight, which was pretty obvious when he got KOd in one round. What else has he done, won some vacant titles because he has a manager powerful enough to line them up? I'm sorry I'm not impressed and fighters who avoid the top fighters in the division should not be praised or rewarded. That should count against them.

overall great post and saved me time from having to say the same thing

[techliam]

I don't think LSC is one of the top 10 best fighters in the sport, but neither are a few other guys on the list. It's a valid question because the level of opposition LSC has faced is similar, or better than some of the guys resume on the list. Danny Garcia is another guy with better win/names on his resume than some guys on the list. It's not a black thing, more like a blacklist, a blacklist of Haymon fighters.

I'm not sure which is worse, posters who consistently bash on or hate anything to do with Haymon, or their counterparts - the ones like this opting for the victim mentality route.

Haymon has a lot of fighters, but not many fighters who are at the very top. Stevenson is probably the closest he has to one currently, and not many are going to claim he's the best lightheavyweight whilst Kovalev is there. You also have Lara, but the division is up in the air at the moment. Garcia was his only legitimate champion, but he moved up. Essentially, he has a massive bunch of contenders.

It translates into most peoples fantasty p4p lists too - its hard to make a solid case for any Haymon fighter being there. You could argue Garcia belongs on the lower end of the list, but noone really cares about the lower end. Garcia's problem was his sub-par showings against Herrera and Peterson, bouts that could've (and should have, in Herrera's case) gone to the other man. LSC's resume isn't any better than Golovkins. He has never been the top man in any of his divisions - at least Broner was the best lightweight when he was there, and at least Golovkin is seen as the best middleweight. The only difference is, is that Golovkin is destroying his opponents and his opponents all too easily price themselves out to fight him - its all speculative (if I cared enough about p4p, I wouldn't rank him so highly). Reminds me of Tyson, his greatness can't be based on his resume because he didn't beat anyone that noteworthy.

[bojangles1987]

He's clearly not a p4p fighter right now. There's no way to say he is.