Comments Thread For: Arum: Golovkin's True Tests Are at 168, Like Ramirez

[tokon]

dude this situation is unique. GGG is a top MW but the MW champs are undersized and have a lot of control given how much they generate. They will likely not fight him. Is it fair, no. It is where we are.

Using Floyd is a poor example on your part. Floyd did go up while waiting for Manny to fight him, twice in fact. Had Manny not gotten those stitches, it likely would've been Floyd/MAnny before he went to jail.

You keep avoiding the question-what do you as a fan want to see more-GGG in tough or GGG in with another MW that is a huge underdog?

If you want the latter, just say it. If watching someone you like get easy wins, is what you want, cool.

There is more glory and respect in moving up than there is in unification for GGG.

i appreciate your points and agree as far as Cotto and, to a lesser extent, Canelo, are concerned.

But Quillan, Lee, Jacobs, are not "undersized".

They are not "great" either but neither were a lot of the 160-lbers that, for example, Hagler defended against.

[The Big Dunn]

this may very well be the case.

but primarily because golovkin is a natural 160lb-er, and not a particularly big one at that.

so he can't just be a great 160lb-er? e.g. like Hagler, Monzon, etc.

he has to give height, reach, weight away to be great?

Hagler and Monzon won their titles in the ring, GGG didn't. Hagler and Monzon could fight everyone, unlike GGG who because of politics and being avoided will not.

He isn't going to be great by continually destroying no hopers. He can be great by going up and beating guys who present a different challenge.

This is no different than what I am saying about Wilder-if you keep fighting and beating bums, you will not get the same respect as someone that defeats better fighters.

[kafkod]

dude this situation is unique. GGG is a top MW but the MW champs are undersized and have a lot of control given how much they generate. They will likely not fight him. Is it fair, no. It is where we are.

Using Floyd is a poor example on your part. Floyd did go up while waiting for Manny to fight him, twice in fact. Had Manny not gotten those stitches, it likely would've been Floyd/MAnny before he went to jail.

You keep avoiding the question-what do you as a fan want to see more-GGG in tough or GGG in with another MW that is a huge underdog?

If you want the latter, just say it. If watching someone you like get easy wins, is what you want, cool.

There is more glory and respect in moving up than there is in unification for GGG.

Bullshit. Boxers moving up in weight is no big deal at all.

But how many unified, undisputed, 4 belt world champions are there in the sport today?

[ИATAS]

Bob still hoping for Rios vs Canelo, hoping he leaves 160 and his mandatory position.

[The Big Dunn]

i appreciate your points and agree as far as Cotto and, to a lesser extent, Canelo, are concerned.

But Quillan, Lee, Jacobs, are not "undersized".

They are not "great" either but neither were a lot of the 160-lbers that, for example, Hagler defended against.

I wasn't even thinking about quillin and Jacobs because of politics.

which actually makes me think I should adjust my point until we see if Haymon gets back on HBO. These are fights that I hope could be made if Cotto and Canelo remain reluctant.

You made a fair point.

[The Big Dunn]

Bullshit. Boxers moving up in weight is no big deal at all.

But how many unified, undisputed, 4 belt world champions are there in the sport today?

Not many due to politics.

You don't think GGG would get more respect for beating ward than he would unifying-defeating Lee, canelo and qullin/jacobs vs defeating lets say degale/froch and ward?

FYI, poster tokon made me stop and think with Herschman out at HBO, maybe Haymon comes back. If so, then maybe GGG should stay at 160 to make fights with the quillin/Jacobs winner.

I am really interested in your answer.

[SteveM]

dude this situation is unique. GGG is a top MW but the MW champs are undersized and have a lot of control given how much they generate. They will likely not fight him. Is it fair, no. It is where we are.

Using Floyd is a poor example on your part. Floyd did go up while waiting for Manny to fight him, twice in fact. Had Manny not gotten those stitches, it likely would've been Floyd/MAnny before he went to jail.

You keep avoiding the question-what do you as a fan want to see more-GGG in tough or GGG in with another MW that is a huge underdog?

If you want the latter, just say it. If watching someone you like get easy wins, is what you want, cool.

There is more glory and respect in moving up than there is in unification for GGG.

In your book there is, but not in everybody's book. There's a lot of respect and glory and legacy in unifying a division and staying there. Right now there is not a lot of competition at MW but a part of that is that Golovkin makes what quality there is look inferior and a part is there are no standouts.

But boxing evolves quickly and in 2 or 3 years there will be some new contenders on the block who are under the radar now. If Golovkin choose and succeeds in swatting down all contenders over an extended period he will get his dues just as Monzon does now.

3 years I hear you say? Who knows, but it is not out of the question. I watched Lebedev and Povetkin yesterday and they both move and box like much younger men and both are 36 yrs old.

[kafkod]

Hagler and Monzon won their titles in the ring, GGG didn't. Hagler and Monzon could fight everyone, unlike GGG who because of politics and being avoided will not.

He isn't going to be great by continually destroying no hopers. He can be great by going up and beating guys who present a different challenge.

This is no different than what I am saying about Wilder-if you keep fighting and beating bums, you will not get the same respect as someone that defeats better fighters.

Wilder is fighting journeymen who aren't even ranked top 30 in the world. GGG is fighting the best MWs he can get into the ring and destroying them easier than Wilder crushes a can.

That's what makes it so exciting to watch him fight, like Tyson in his prime.
Everybody expected Tyson to annihilate his opponent every time he fought, and they loved seeing him do it, because they knew he wasn't crushing cans, he was beating the best heavyweights in the world, and making it look easy.

[Shadoww702]

If you say maidana is mediocre than what the heck has ggg been fighting??? 34 years old and your best opponent is Murray??? Now they're hyping Andy Lee!!! The Lee that Chavez practically destroyed...

[SteveM]

Not many due to politics.

You don't think GGG would get more respect for beating ward than he would unifying-defeating Lee, canelo and qullin/jacobs vs defeating lets say degale/froch and ward?

FYI, poster tokon made me stop and think with Herschman out at HBO, maybe Haymon comes back. If so, then maybe GGG should stay at 160 to make fights with the quillin/Jacobs winner.

I am really interested in your answer.

There's many boxers who move up a division but very few who go fight the number one in that division.

Most move up half way: Canelo, Garcia, Ward, Khan.
Or fight lower tier fighters in the higher division to get adjusted: Khan, Garcia.

Why is/was GGG expected to move up and fight not only the best in that division but also a top 3 p4p fighter?