Waddell+Reed's PBC investment has lost 59% of it's value.

[Eastcoast]

Over $300 million in 7 months.

Put this into perspective:
they just spent 10 years worth HBO's budget in 7 months....


After liquidation next year, they'll be selling those remaining time-buys for Ab Roller infomercials.

[DeadLikeMe]

Easy things to grasp. Mind-boggling.

I noticed they're the same way with rankings too. It's like they just take anything a reporter says without thinking critically.

PBC's ratings have ranged from excellent to disappointing but I see a nice trend. After the initial rush, things died down a bit but they did nice numbers with Frampton-Gonzalez. Had a good July and an even better August, capped off by the Mares-Santa Cruz #'s that people pretended they didn't see. And peaking at 3mil viewers for Wilder-Duwhoever went overlooked too. On and on. Well, I guess we'll see in the end what happens. We've been down this road before, haven't we lol

The craziest thing is, there are very real and very concerning criticisms regarding what Haymon is trying to pull. They all just happen to get drowned out by the "muh Manny" crowd trying to prove PBC is already a failure.

[doom_specialist]

Easy things to grasp. Mind-boggling.

I noticed they're the same way with rankings too. It's like they just take anything a reporter says without thinking critically.

PBC's ratings have ranged from excellent to disappointing but I see a nice trend. After the initial rush, things died down a bit but they did nice numbers with Frampton-Gonzalez. Had a good July and an even better August, capped off by the Mares-Santa Cruz #'s that people pretended they didn't see. And peaking at 3mil viewers for Wilder-Duwhoever went overlooked too. On and on. Well, I guess we'll see in the end what happens. We've been down this road before, haven't we lol

It's pretty sickening that people are openly rooting for boxing on network TV to fail, solely because of the man running it. They're even talking **** about the investors :/

[Scipio2009]

It's not about being an expert, its pretty simple. If a tv show gets bad ratings, advertisers don't pay top dollar to advertise. If the money they do bring in can't cover the show's budget, then the show's over. Pbc has a very big budget per show and they do reality tv show numbers that cost peanuts. Do you honestly not see how problematic that is for them? The little money they'd get from advertisers , based on their weak viewership, wouldn't cover their huge costs. If it did, much cheaper programs with similar ratings would still be on the air. They're not. Nobody is going to buy this product for those ratings when they can produce a much cheaper show and get similar ratings. Another reason is that the network would be losing tons of money on a program that costs way too much money and attracts no viewers which equals low advertising dollars. Like I said before it can possibly work, but not at this price tag.

The same company gave Formula 1, $1.5 billion. Formula 1 has close to $2 billion in revenue per year and just made half a billion in profit last year. That's a viable business. Something that actually brings in money. Pbc brings in nothing and never will with those ratings.

The point that you're clearly avoiding is that PBC's effort doesn't fit that trope because Haymon, and not the actual channel, is putting up the money and bearing the risk; the only way that PBC gets taken off of the air would be if Haymon simply ran out of money (with the project already having the tv paid for through 2018, Haymon may even have the leeway to sublet some of those backend TV dates to cover current costs, if need be).

How is NBC or CBS or any of the other channels going to "cancel a show" when, from the assumed layman's take on the deals, said show is being treated as "paid programming"? lol

[HeroBando]

Easy things to grasp. Mind-boggling.

I noticed they're the same way with rankings too. It's like they just take anything a reporter says without thinking critically.

PBC's ratings have ranged from excellent to disappointing but I see a nice trend. After the initial rush, things died down a bit but they did nice numbers with Frampton-Gonzalez. Had a good July and an even better August, capped off by the Mares-Santa Cruz #'s that people pretended they didn't see. And peaking at 3mil viewers for Wilder-Duwhoever went overlooked too. On and on. Well, I guess we'll see in the end what happens. We've been down this road before, haven't we lol

It's not really a good trend when each NBC show does worse than previous, including that Wilder fight. Mares Santa Cruz was a pretty good rating for a very expensive main event, but that's not a trend, it's an outlier.

[HeroBando]

The point that you're clearly avoiding is that PBC's effort doesn't fit that trope because Haymon, and not the actual channel, is putting up the money and bearing the risk; the only way that PBC gets taken off of the air would be if Haymon simply ran out of money (with the project already having the tv paid for through 2018, Haymon may even have the leeway to sublet some of those backend TV dates to cover current costs, if need be).

How is NBC or CBS or any of the other channels going to "cancel a show" when, from the assumed layman's take on the deals, said show is being treated as "paid programming"? lol

God damn you're a dumb. The only way to sustain this is if the network offers a deal. Haymon cannot prop this up forever with hedge fund money. And the networks are not gonna pay 50x for 2x the ratings, or worse

[Eff Pandas]

It's not about being an expert, its pretty simple. If a tv show gets bad ratings, advertisers don't pay top dollar to advertise. If the money they do bring in can't cover the show's budget, then the show's over. Pbc has a very big budget per show and they do reality tv show numbers that cost peanuts. Do you honestly not see how problematic that is for them? The little money they'd get from advertisers , based on their weak viewership, wouldn't cover their huge costs. If it did, much cheaper programs with similar ratings would still be on the air. They're not. Nobody is going to buy this product for those ratings when they can produce a much cheaper show and get similar ratings.

LOL @ you always mentioning reality shows cuz of the ROI. But fair play.

The reality is NBC is currently paying the NHL $200M a year over 10 years (a $2B deal) to show hockey games. Over the last 5 years on NBC they've been averaging 1.4M-1.6M viewers per game for regular season games. The NHL games on NBC Sports have averaged 300k-400k viewers per game over the same 5 year period. The NHL finals bumps their ratings from 3M-6M viewers average, again over the last 5 years. Games have been as low as 1.7M viewers to as high as 8.2M viewers (typically ratings go up greatly on game 7's).

The UFC currently has a 7 year deal with Fox worth over $600M @ $90M a year. They've been hitting 2M-3M for most of that deal with a few 4M+ hits early on in the first 18mos.

Thus far PBC on NBC has had between 2.2M to 4.2M viewers for their primetime shows. The NBC Sports shows seem to average around 300k. They just made a deal with Fox that starts on Jan. 23 so will have some figures for how they compare with the UFC soon.

But the point is I don't see a ton of disparity in most of these numbers & NBC says the NHL's numbers are worth $200M a year & the UFC's are worth $90M a year. If you don't think PBC can secure a multi year half a billion type deal based on this info I think you are being overly critic of the sport of boxing & its success in comparison to what other sports are doing.

[AddiX]

LOL @ you always mentioning reality shows cuz of the ROI. But fair play.

The reality is NBC is currently paying the NHL $200M a year over 10 years (a $2B deal) to show hockey games. Over the last 5 years on NBC they've been averaging 1.4M-1.6M viewers per game for regular season games. The NHL games on NBC Sports have averaged 300k-400k viewers per game over the same 5 year period. The NHL finals bumps their ratings from 3M-6M viewers average, again over the last 5 years. Games have been as low as 1.7M viewers to as high as 8.2M viewers (typically ratings go up greatly on game 7's).

The UFC currently has a 7 year deal with Fox worth over $600M @ $90M a year. They've been hitting 2M-3M for most of that deal with a few 4M+ hits early on in the first 18mos.

Thus far PBC on NBC has had between 2.2M to 4.2M viewers for their primetime shows. The NBC Sports shows seem to average around 300k. They just made a deal with Fox that starts on Jan. 23 so will have some figures for how they compare with the UFC soon.

But the point is I don't see a ton of disparity in most of these numbers & NBC says the NHL's numbers are worth $200M a year & the UFC's are worth $90M a year. If you don't think PBC can secure a multi year half a billion type deal based on this info I think you are being overly critic of the sport of boxing & its success in comparison to what other sports are doing.

First off, What PBC spends on this NBC shows is far more than what any tv deal will pay them. That's a fact. there cost per viewer is astrinomical right now.

Second off, if your going to play boxingscene sports marketer you should learn about target audience.

The numbers only tell half the story. You want to know why NHL and UFC can get that kind if deal. Because marketers consider there audience very hard to reach, and worth a ton of $.

Boxing doesn't bring in that same target audience the way UFC or NHL does.

And you PBC lovers need to stop ignoring the biggest factor. PBC's ratings are dropping and still haven't proven they can secure longterm sponsors.

That's a pretty big deal. If PBC can't secure long term sponsors they'll be done in no time, that's a fact. That was the whole point of the time buy, to prove they could.

[Pigeons]

Tonight will be PBC's 37th show. I don't have the ratings for last night's Bounce TV show yet, but the average rating for each of the first 35 shows are below. Please keep in my mind that these are the average ratings for the entire telecast.

CBS daytime (AVG: 1.1306M)
4/4: 1.422M
5/9: 1.313M (-109K)
6/21: 868K (-445K)
7/18: 1.050M (+182K)
9/6: 1.000M (-50K)

NBC daytime (AVG: 1.0750M)
5/23: 1.000M
6/6: 1.200M (+200K)
9/12: 1.000M (-200K)
10/17: 1.100M (+100K)

NBC primetime (AVG: 2.6905M)
3/7: 3.374M
4/11: 2.882M (-492K)
6/20: 2.327M (-555K)
9/26: 2.179M (-148K)

NBCSN (AVG: 284.3333K)
7/25: 241K
8/15: 362K (+121K)
10/10: 250K (-112K)

Spike (AVG: 604.4286K)
3/13: 869K
4/24: 569K (-300K)
5/29: 772K (+203K)
6/12: 446K (-326K)
8/14: 679K (+233K)
9/11: 581K (-98K)
10/16: 315K (-266K)

ESPN (AVG: 879.2500K)
7/11: 799K
8/1: 1.073K (-274K)
8/29: 1.217M (+144K)
10/14: 428K (-789K)

FS1 (AVG: 175.6667K)
9/8: 184K
9/15: 152K (-32K)
9/22: 172K (+20K)
9/29: 201K (+29K)
10/6: 153K (-48K)
10/13: 192K (+39K)

Bounce TV (AVG: 397.0000K)
8/2: 459K
9/18: 335K (-124K)

[FeFist]

Easy things to grasp. Mind-boggling.

I noticed they're the same way with rankings too. It's like they just take anything a reporter says without thinking critically.

PBC's ratings have ranged from excellent to disappointing but I see a nice trend. After the initial rush, things died down a bit but they did nice numbers with Frampton-Gonzalez. Had a good July and an even better August, capped off by the Mares-Santa Cruz #'s that people pretended they didn't see. And peaking at 3mil viewers for Wilder-Duwhoever went overlooked too. On and on. Well, I guess we'll see in the end what happens. We've been down this road before, haven't we lol

It really is a bloody cycle. People feel as though they have spotted a drop of blood and they go in for the kill; rational people provide some perspective, which is met with ''Flomos are accountants now" or "Flomos are lawyers now; it is revealed that what people thought was blood turned out to be a splash of tomato ketchup and the people with their pitchforks disappear like a magician.