Prime James Toney vs GGG?

[BennyST]

Whoever wins would be by decision and very debatable.
It depends on the judges whether they prefer offensive or defensive minded fighter.
Jirov (one of the representative of Kazakhstan school of boxing) was very game until the very last minute against Toney. GGG is far better fighter than Jirov. GGG is naturally talented and physically gifted with great work ethic, while Jirov was who he was only because of great work ethic.

GGG is a far better fighter than Jirov? You can say that now, in hindsight as Jirov's career is now over and GGG's is still going, but GGG hasn't had to face what Jirov did. Without that loss to Toney, Jirov would probably be thought of as every bit the equal of GGG. It's amazing what meeting great opposition does to your career. Or, in the case of GGG, not meeting great opposition. Suddenly, you're knocking out prime, peak James Toney in fantasy fights.

Until Jirov stepped up to fight Toney, he was thought of nearly identically to what GGG is now. He had looked brilliant, was undefeated, a long time champion at his peak, was a knockout artist with a similar KO record as GGG, was one of the best amateurs of that era, all until he stepped up to meet Toney.

Jirov was the favourite going in of course as Toney was thought to be washed up and cruiserweight thought to be much too big for him. Jirov was said to be younger, stronger, punched too hard, had too much stamina, and the great amateur pedigree and skills. Toney was fat, had no stamina, was sluggish, was too small, and would basically get beaten up and probably stopped late.

It's funny that we've come to the point of comparing a 200-220 pound, 6'2" southpaw cruiserweight champion and heavyweight, who, at one time was thought of very much like GGG ie. an undefeated, four year champion at his peak, who had stopped all but four of his 31 opponents and had looked beastly doing it all against opposition that was on par with GGG's.

He was also considered one of the great amateur standouts of his era. Incredible amateur record, olympic gold medalist, Val Barker medalist, etc etc.

If someone was going to stop Toney late, surely it would be a 6'2", 200 pound southpaw with a great amateur pedigree who could also turn it up and throw 1000 punches, take a great shot and who was one of the best southpaw body punchers you'll see. Surely someone like that would overwhelm the stamina lacking, sluggish Toney with all his ill disciplined training methods.

[Sancho Puncho]

Too flat footed...

Flat-footed? You really think so?
If so, it just shows that you are unable to distinguish between great footwork and flat-footed. Every GGG opponent noted his great footwork, but blind haters can`t see it.

[boliodogs]

No middleweight fighting today can beat GGG so they bring in fighters from the past to beat him by a wide margin. Prime Toney was lucky to beat Tiberi. Of course Toney is still fighting today as a super heavyweight. As the years go by these great boxers from the past keep getting better and better. Even the prime Toney was often not in good condition for some fights. GGG has never had that problem.

[BigAlexSand]

My answer is based of 3 variables; Skill, Speed, and chin... Although Golovkin has yet to show the strength of his chin, Toney had one of the most granite chins in the sport. Toney also would have the speed advantage at middleweight. The skill also goes to Toney who was a remarkable super middleweight. Power I believe are equally devastating. The biggest issue with Toney is; which Toney will show up.

There were two James Toney during much of his career. The slow, defensive James Toney who was often difficult to watch. Then there was the Fast past, defensively offensive James Toney who wanted to impress. If the James Toney who wanted to impress, I would go with a TKO/Stoppage in the late rounds. If the more defensive, slow past Toney showed up because of Golovkins offensive skill and come foward style would not look good for Toney who would go all 12 but lose by either close UD or SD.

Toney was a difficult fighter to Out Box in his Prime but his lack of a acceptable punch output denied him many rounds in his career. But when the Toney who wanted to impress showed up, he was one of the more entertaining fighters to watch; with his slick defense mixed with pure speed and power. Although a great fighter Golovkins lack of opposition makes it difficult to determine against Boxers with the set of skills of Toney, Jones, Hopkins... Some ATGs, I do believe based of skill/power Golovkin could beat but others it's much more difficult to determine.

[Sancho Puncho]

Suddenly, you're knocking out prime, peak James Toney in fantasy fights.

No, not James Toney, I think GGG would`ve knocked out prime Hopkins.
With Toney I think it would go to the cards.

As for comparing Jirov and GGG, I am actually Jirov fan. But Jirov`s own trainer said that Jirov was nothing special at the beginning, but made it that far, because of his great work ethic. Jirov really became somewhat known only after he won Olympic gold, which came as a surprise for many.
GGG was special from very young days. Everybody who knew him thought that he was phenomenal even before GGG reached peaks of his amateur career.

[BigAlexSand]

No, not James Toney, I think GGG would`ve knocked out prime Hopkins.
With Toney I think it would go to the cards.

As for comparing Jirov and GGG, I am actually Jirov fan. But Jirov`s own trainer said that Jirov was nothing special at the beginning, but made it that far, because of his great work ethic. Jirov really became somewhat known only after he won Olympic gold, which came as a surprise for many.
GGG was special from very young days. Everybody who knew him thought that he was phenomenal even before GGG reached peaks of his amateur career.

GGG, who hasn't fought any Elite Opposition; is gonna knock out a fighter who has never been Knocked Out? Okay.... Keep dreaming!

[FeFist]

James Toney would cut him up. His punches as good at working their way through the gaps in an opponents stance and he is slippery enough to make Golovkin look like a lumbering oaf.

I don't imagine the match up being close nor do I think Toney stopping him is outside of the question.

[Danieltapia]

Can't see how GGG can win this.

[Sancho Puncho]

GGG, who hasn't fought any Elite Opposition; is gonna knock out a fighter who has never been Knocked Out? Okay.... Keep dreaming!

If you prefer to base your opinion on cold facts, you have to wait until GGG career is over to have a voice here. Behold greatness while you can, fighters primes are short. I believe that during the course of his career GGG will destroy everyone at 154-168 and maybe at 175, if he moves up.
As for knocking out fighters who were never knocked out, you should check GGG resume, because it is littered with such fighters.

[BennyST]

****in hell chill out

Of course i've watched his fights, I wouldn't have given my opinion knowing it would be unpopular unless I done the research and truly believed it.

Yes Toney was never knocked out and i said that in my post anyway. He was dropped heavily by Reggie Johnson and let of the hook, winning a close fight. As for the sluggishness you can see that in plenty of his fights at 160 including the Reggie Johnson fight. I thought the first McCallum fight should have been a fight he won clearly if not for his sluggishness and lack of stamina, made it closer than it should've. McCallum was an excellent fighter but then....

Also in his against Tibieri his stamina was dreadful, literally tired after a couple rounds.... then the glove incident gives him MINUTES to get a second wind. Ladies and gentlmen this is a REAL ecample of a fighter being helped by the glove tear, it wasn't done on purpose but no doubt helped Toney get a breather. The Clay-Cooper gloves incident is a MYTH! and funny enough even after he had that long break he was tired again after 1 round. Went life and death and was fortunate to get the victory.

Anyway it's just my opinion that Golovkin would beat Toney at 160, no need to get all offended because it's not what you want to hear.. Toney was unrealiable at the weight class and I simply wouldn't have confidence picking him against many elite 160 fighters and I consider Golovkin elite.

Urgh, I don't get offended by your opinion, and maybe you've not noticed it, but that's a standard post. So take your 'chill out' **** somewhere else.

This whole epidemic of 'hey buddy, chill out, it's just my opinion' is precisely why people shouldn't be led to feel entitled to speak on anything they want, thinking that their every opinion is valid simply because they can say it. While everyone might have one, unless you can validate your opinion with someone resembling a legitimate argument then it's just a **** thought.

There is a difference between forming an opinion based on sound reason and talking **** based on literally nothing. But no, I didn't agree with the other guy either.

It seems like you're taking into account everything that GGG does well, and just assuming it'll all work perfectly against Toney while ignoring everything Toney does and only focusing on his perceived weaknesses.

You're saying that Toney gets stopped late by GGG, not just beaten (which I wouldn't have thought twice about), which would mean Toney getting beaten up over the course of the fight, then knocked out, which was never remotely close to ever happening in a 30 year, 80 fight HOF career spanning five divisions and essentially 100 pounds taking into account the weight of the heavies, and greater fighters than GGG. Or based on a what you've now come out and said, him getting dropped early by a very fast, awkward southpaw counter puncher Johnson on a Pac like left hand, a punch which GGG can't throw by a guy whose style couldn't be more polar opposite. This is the one which I assumed someone was going to bring up and go "GGG better than Johnson! Proof that GGG crushes Toney! Pwned!".

Johnson might not have been better than GGG, but he was certainly faster, he was a southpaw and he had one hell of a punch. He was a counter puncher through and through and wasn't a finisher though. But, if anything, that knockdown, the only one of Toney's career, early on basically a flash knockdown before he'd warmed up, would tend to go against a GGG stoppage even more. Not only could he not get hit like that by GGG, but he recovered straight away and never looked remotely close to being in trouble of losing the fight by KO.

Against a much more methodical, predictable, textbook fighter with much cleaner, textbook, orthodox technique, Toney thrives. That's his bread and butter. GGG's equivalent, a straight right hand. How likely is it that you think GGG is going to land that punch on a prime Toney as cleanly and hard as a faster, southpaw is able to land his straight left?