Prime James Toney vs GGG?

[Fists_of_Fury]

Prime James Toney at his best would easily beat the hype job.

[lightsout_finit]

I've seen those fights plenty of times. If that's indicative of him not taking body shots well, then no one in the sport does if you're going to exaggerate that much of the affect they had on him.

I never said he had a glass stomach

Their are plenty of fighters who take body shots very well actually...
I just don't believe ggg is one of them.

Its interesting that you say I'm exaggerating...
I could just as easily say you are trying to downplay a weakness in a fighter you like

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree as this is one of those things where
only time will tell...

Just out of interest why would you watch the Murray/Monroe fights plenty of times???

[AKAcronym]

I never said he had a glass stomach

Their are plenty of fighters who take body shots very well actually...
I just don't believe ggg is one of them.

Its interesting that you say I'm exaggerating...
I could just as easily say you are trying to downplay a weakness in a fighter you like

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree as this is one of those things where
only time will tell...

Just out of interest why would you watch the Murray/Monroe fights plenty of times???

It's not downplaying so much as it's bringing it back to normal because it's been heightened based off of what I believe erroneous observation. But fair enough. Agree to disagree. I guess I should clarify I haven't seen the whole fights plenty of times. There are parts I like to watch (as with other fights and fighters), where I like to see little things he's done and notice what he does in order to get the desired affect. He's far more technical than some of his detractors are led to believe. And I enjoy the parts where he displays them.

[Fists_of_Fury]

This is the 1st GGG fight I watched. I wasn't very impressed to say the least...

[Caught Square]

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. The only problem I see with this is that GGG doesn't outwork fighters. He outfights them and basically overpowers them. He's not a Margarito 80-100 punches a round guy.

You remember his fight with Ouma? Ouma was a classic 'outwork you' kind of guy and he did it very well against GGG until the size and power difference got too much. GGG doesn't throw that much. He's very methodical, so it comes across like he does, but it's more just because he's working away slowly but surely.

That isn't the type of guy that would outwork Toney. GGG throws an average of about 60-65 punches per round, many of them power punches. Inside, it's all Toneys game. He was faster, much harder to hit inside, and his shots were shorter and more compact inside and he worked up and down. GGG needs to be set to punch and he likes the know he's going to land, so inside he'd find it difficult not just to land but just to get off first and when he did, he'd be countered.

I'm not saying he wouldn't land, he would. Hes a good fighter, he just wouldn't land close to the amount he's used to landing and he wouldn't be landing his usual clean, big power swings. THose wide, sweeping hooks that he favours, very few of those would land at all.

Toney, on the other hand, would land a lot. He's the only fighter to ever land over 400 punches on numerous occasions. In his big fights, particularly when he had someone in front of him fighting, he threw and landed like an offensive machine and GGG would be in front of him the whole fight. The fights he landed most in, were against GGGish type styles. He's open to counters, because he waits after he throws to see what's happening. He'll throw then leaves himself open. Against the guys he's fighting he gets away with it, because they are often retreating and getting hit with his combos.

Toney has things that GGG has never seen and I can't see him dealing with very well, due to his style of fighting. GGG has nothing Toney hasn't seen, and the style of GGG suits Toney down to the ground. A come forward, methodical, textbook power puncher that wasn't particularly fast of hand or foot. Toney had a few issues with certain styles over the years, but this was the stuff he feasted on. This was his game.

It's true Golovkin isn't as busy as Margs. In the early rounds I don't think the work rate will be too much of a difference, instead Golovkin's underrated JAB would give Toney problems but by about round 5 when both guys have landed some good shots Toney will be the one worse for wear and breathing heavily. Then by 7,8,9 the work rate really starts to play a factor as Toney's output drops off and Golovkin is encouraged by this to go for the kill, no doubt Golovkin has killer instinct and when he sees Toney is gassed out he would step up a few gears, yes he is methodical at times but once he smells blood then that's when he starts to throw more. Durable Toney is much more likely to be stopped on his feet than KTFO. Going the distance isn't out of the question but fatigue is my reason to believe it's a stoppage.

Tibeiri wasn't elite and had the ideal style for Toney to feast on but he wound up going life and death, winning a fortunate decision. Again it's the inconsistency with fights like this which is why i'm not confident to pick Toney.

Someone who could smother Golovkins offence like Ward is the one who would most likely defeat him. I don't see Toney at 160 as the guy who could neutralise Golovkin's offensive arsenal.

[JACK1190]

Prime Toney UD's Golovkin.

[Beercules]

I like both fighters but a Gennady win isn't that far out of question, he probably drops Toney a couple times which might bring him up on points.


He's not knocking Toney out though.



I think I'll say Gennady by close/controversial/flooding NSB decision.

[deebs81]

Instinctively you would say Toney in a dominant performance. But Toney's inconsistency gets overlooked a lot of the time. He could be unbelievable but he could also be very flat and struggle to get anything going.

Would still say Toney but it's not inconceivable that GGG makes it interesting. Toney was more hittable than people seem to remember. He just had a granite chin.

This

Toney got outworked a few times in his career in lacklustre performances. Even in fights he won he came from behind with late KO. This is the only reason id give Calzaghe a prayer at beating Toney. Toney did lose to Drake Thadzi and got a gift against Dave Tiberi

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Toney would light up ggg with counters and stop him late..

Toney is all wrong for ggg

[deebs81]

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. The only problem I see with this is that GGG doesn't outwork fighters. He outfights them and basically overpowers them. He's not a Margarito 80-100 punches a round guy.

You remember his fight with Ouma? Ouma was a classic 'outwork you' kind of guy and he did it very well against GGG until the size and power difference got too much. GGG doesn't throw that much. He's very methodical, so it comes across like he does, but it's more just because he's working away slowly but surely.

That isn't the type of guy that would outwork Toney. GGG throws an average of about 60-65 punches per round, many of them power punches. Inside, it's all Toneys game. He was faster, much harder to hit inside, and his shots were shorter and more compact inside and he worked up and down. GGG needs to be set to punch and he likes the know he's going to land, so inside he'd find it difficult not just to land but just to get off first and when he did, he'd be countered.

I'm not saying he wouldn't land, he would. Hes a good fighter, he just wouldn't land close to the amount he's used to landing and he wouldn't be landing his usual clean, big power swings. THose wide, sweeping hooks that he favours, very few of those would land at all.

Toney, on the other hand, would land a lot. He's the only fighter to ever land over 400 punches on numerous occasions. In his big fights, particularly when he had someone in front of him fighting, he threw and landed like an offensive machine and GGG would be in front of him the whole fight. The fights he landed most in, were against GGGish type styles. He's open to counters, because he waits after he throws to see what's happening. He'll throw then leaves himself open. Against the guys he's fighting he gets away with it, because they are often retreating and getting hit with his combos.

Toney has things that GGG has never seen and I can't see him dealing with very well, due to his style of fighting. GGG has nothing Toney hasn't seen, and the style of GGG suits Toney down to the ground. A come forward, methodical, textbook power puncher that wasn't particularly fast of hand or foot. Toney had a few issues with certain styles over the years, but this was the stuff he feasted on. This was his game.

Agree with this. From what I've seen of GGG he's economical with his punches and as you say, he does only let shots go when he knows they're going to land. Standing an posing infront of James Toney isn't an effective strategy. Counter punchers like time to think to set traps, and GGG would be there for the receipt every time.

You would have to hope GGG could hit Toney had enough to put him on the defensive an hope he would go into a defensive shell. Toney had a granite chin though, and he's a hard man he knows how to dog it out when needed, Jirov.