Prime James Toney vs GGG?

[BennyST]

At 160 Golovkin KO's a stamina lacking and sluggish Toney. 168 not sure because we don't know how golovkin's power will carry up and Toney's best performance (imo) was at that weight class.

Golovkin doesn't seem to tire and Toney may land some good shots in the pocket but I don't think they would hurt Golovkin too badly. Toney has the reputation of being iron chinned which i suppose is justified as he has gone up to heavyweight and not been stopped but at 160 he could get hurt especially against a big puncher in Golovkin. I don't think Golovkin would let Toney off the hook and would stop him in 10 or 11.

Toney gets mythical credit for what he could've been imo but I only go by what I saw at the weight class.

What fight led you to this observation? Which opponent? Was it that time when Toney was knocked out by....ummmm, or maybe that time when he was lacking stamina and hardly made it out of the fight against ..... ummmmmm, yeah well, maybe it when he was getting beat up, looked sluggish and so it might make some sense to say that GGG could do a similar thing that whatsisname did....ummm, you know? That guy....errrrr....

Oh sorry, I mistook Toney for someone else. None of that ever happened, so to suggest something like that is really showing up glaring ignorance. Why not go watch some of his fights?

A guy that hasn't even been close to getting stopped from 160 to 250 pound heavyweights, against some of the very best fighters this era has ever seen, against HOF ATGs, but you come up with GGG stops a sluggish Toney? Based on what exactly? Your wet dream? Which fight and opponent gave you the idea that this could possibly happen? Surely you base your assumptions on something, otherwise you're doing what people tend to call 'talking out your ass'.

Can't people at least base their ****ing bull**** in NSB on something that might make a little sense. Just once or twice? Base their assumptions on something that shows a little bit of research? Nearly happened, or a guy of similar power had him reeling and nearly out, or someone with great stamina was beating him up etc etc. Otherwise you might as well predict anything. Oh yeah, that's exactly what happens on NSB all the time.

Why base it on history, and what actually happened in those situations against similar styled fighters and what a fighter had actually done, when you can just make stuff up? Make this place a little more full of horse**** and ignorance.

You wanna know why GGG doesn't seem to tire? It's because so far he's never had to fight someone he respects or someone who has made him respect them. So, that means he fights at his own pace and dictates the fight how he wants. When you do that, any and every top fighter won't tire. He also fights at a very methodical, measured pace. He doesn't fight at a hard, furious pace. Not one that is going to put enough pressure on someone like Toney enough to stop him late anyway.

What happens when someone counters his combinations with hard, clean punches that hurt? What happens when he finds he's missing more than he's landing, and get hit in return? What happens when his frustration mounts when stuff that normally works for him, doesn't work? What happens when every time he throws his overhand right, he misses and gets caught with a big right hand in return? What about when he gets hit to the liver again and again? What happens when he gets his guy up against the ropes where he likes it, but instead of landing big shots and hurting his guy, he ends up taking more punishment than he dishes out, can't hurt his guy and struggles to even land with a solid, clean shot?

Do you think it would all look like his fights against Geale, Rosado, Murray, Rubio, Monroe, Stevens? Is that what you envision when you think of GGG against a prime 160 Toney at his best? GGG just walking him down, blasting him with big shots round after round, landing devastating combination after combination, until a tiring Toney can't take it anymore and gets knocked out? It would take a lot of clean punishment to stop Toney.

Toney was a classic championship round fighter. He would often take rests, depending on who he was fighting mostly but he was a guy that always got better as the fight wore on and finished the fight strong. He did it against adversity too, not only against guys that were easy for him.

[Scott9945]

And Tiberi was a better fighter than any ggg has faced. That's a fact.

No, that's bull****. Tiberi was 22-2-3 with no wins over a top 30 middleweight.

[AKAcronym]

It'd be hard to argue against Toney. But it does say a lot that he think GGG is the best middleweight since himself.

[BennyST]

Ridiculous logic, no problem with anyone saying Toney wins but your reasoning doesn't make any sense imo.

Actually, your reasoning and logic is ridiculous here. There's no problem saying Toney or GGG wins, but to say GGG batters and knocks out a tired, sluggish Toney is throwing everything that Toney ever did straight out the window and just using fantasy to make your prediction.

At least everyone else here is using what both guys have actually done and achieved, comparing and contrasting, for their thoughts. Whether they think GGG or Toney, at least their reasoning is solid, and based on real events.

What the hell are you using?

The only possible reason I can see for that line of thought is that you aren't thinking of Toney at all, and you're just thinking of what GGG has done to all his opponents and you then just replace their face with Toney's and go "Yep, that seems about right".

Toney's head on Martin Murrays body, with all of Murray's skill, tenacity, chin, power, and savvy. Stopped late in the 11th, so it makes sense!

Martin 'Lights Out' Money.

[SilverMiles]

I wonder if most of these guys even followed Janes Toney career because the way done overrate him is ridiculous. Toney wasn't as good as GGG, I've seen Toney lose to fighters like Geale and Murray in his prime and get questionable decisions.

If I'm going a betting man I'll go with the more consistent of the two. Toney was a very good fighter but not quite special and could be outboxed and beat up by the right opponent. In GGG he'll be facing perhaps one of the best boxers ever.

GGG by UD.

[SilverMiles]

No, that's bull****. Tiberi was 22-2-3 with no wins over a top 30 middleweight.

These guys just make stuff up, most probably haven't seen Tiberius fight but will still say he's better than anyone GGG has fought which is all honesty is bull****.

[Caught Square]

What fight led you to this observation? Which opponent? Was it that time when Toney was knocked out by....ummmm, or maybe that time when he was lacking stamina and hardly made it out of the fight against ..... ummmmmm, yeah well, maybe it when he was getting beat up, looked sluggish and so it might make some sense to say that GGG could do a similar thing that whatsisname did....ummm, you know? That guy....errrrr....

Oh sorry, I mistook Toney for someone else. None of that ever happened, so to suggest something like that is really showing up glaring ignorance. Why not go watch some of his fights?

A guy that hasn't even been close to getting stopped from 160 to 250 pound heavyweights, against some of the very best fighters this era has ever seen, against HOF ATGs, but you come up with GGG stops a sluggish Toney? Based on what exactly? Your wet dream? Which fight and opponent gave you the idea that this could possibly happen? Surely you base your assumptions on something, otherwise you're doing what people tend to call 'talking out your ass'.

Can't people at least base their ****ing bull**** in NSB on something that might make a little sense. Just once or twice? Base their assumptions on something that shows a little bit of research? Nearly happened, or a guy of similar power had him reeling and nearly out, or someone with great stamina was beating him up etc etc. Otherwise you might as well predict anything. Oh yeah, that's exactly what happens on NSB all the time.

Why base it on history, and what actually happened in those situations against similar styled fighters and what a fighter had actually done, when you can just make stuff up? Make this place a little more full of horse**** and ignorance.

You wanna know why GGG doesn't seem to tire? It's because so far he's never had to fight someone he respects or someone who has made him respect them. So, that means he fights at his own pace and dictates the fight how he wants. When you do that, any and every top fighter won't tire. He also fights at a very methodical, measured pace. He doesn't fight at a hard, furious pace. Not one that is going to put enough pressure on someone like Toney enough to stop him late anyway.

What happens when someone counters his combinations with hard, clean punches that hurt? What happens when he finds he's missing more than he's landing, and get hit in return? What happens when his frustration mounts when stuff that normally works for him, doesn't work? What happens when every time he throws his overhand right, he misses and gets caught with a big right hand in return? What about when he gets hit to the liver again and again? What happens when he gets his guy up against the ropes where he likes it, but instead of landing big shots and hurting his guy, he ends up taking more punishment than he dishes out, can't hurt his guy and struggles to even land with a solid, clean shot?

Do you think it would all look like his fights against Geale, Rosado, Murray, Rubio, Monroe, Stevens? Is that what you envision when you think of GGG against a prime 160 Toney at his best? GGG just walking him down, blasting him with big shots round after round, landing devastating combination after combination, until a tiring Toney can't take it anymore and gets knocked out? It would take a lot of clean punishment to stop Toney.

Toney was a classic championship round fighter. He would often take rests, depending on who he was fighting mostly but he was a guy that always got better as the fight wore on and finished the fight strong. He did it against adversity too, not only against guys that were easy for him.

****in hell chill out

Of course i've watched his fights, I wouldn't have given my opinion knowing it would be unpopular unless I done the research and truly believed it.

Yes Toney was never knocked out and i said that in my post anyway. He was dropped heavily by Reggie Johnson and let of the hook, winning a close fight. As for the sluggishness you can see that in plenty of his fights at 160 including the Reggie Johnson fight. I thought the first McCallum fight should have been a fight he won clearly if not for his sluggishness and lack of stamina, made it closer than it should've. McCallum was an excellent fighter but then....

Also in his against Tibieri his stamina was dreadful, literally tired after a couple rounds.... then the glove incident gives him MINUTES to get a second wind. Ladies and gentlmen this is a REAL ecample of a fighter being helped by the glove tear, it wasn't done on purpose but no doubt helped Toney get a breather. The Clay-Cooper gloves incident is a MYTH! and funny enough even after he had that long break he was tired again after 1 round. Went life and death and was fortunate to get the victory.

Anyway it's just my opinion that Golovkin would beat Toney at 160, no need to get all offended because it's not what you want to hear.. Toney was unrealiable at the weight class and I simply wouldn't have confidence picking him against many elite 160 fighters and I consider Golovkin elite.

[Caught Square]

Actually, your reasoning and logic is ridiculous here. There's no problem saying Toney or GGG wins, but to say GGG batters and knocks out a tired, sluggish Toney is throwing everything that Toney ever did straight out the window and just using fantasy to make your prediction.

At least everyone else here is using what both guys have actually done and achieved, comparing and contrasting, for their thoughts. Whether they think GGG or Toney, at least their reasoning is solid, and based on real events.

What the hell are you using?

The only possible reason I can see for that line of thought is that you aren't thinking of Toney at all, and you're just thinking of what GGG has done to all his opponents and you then just replace their face with Toney's and go "Yep, that seems about right".

Toney's head on Martin Murrays body, with all of Murray's skill, tenacity, chin, power, and savvy. Stopped late in the 11th, so it makes sense!

Martin 'Lights Out' Money.

So do you agree with the logic the guy I replied to used, yes or no?

[gingerbreadman]

Toney is horrible for GGG, UD. Big Golovkin fan and I think if he stays at middle he has a chance to go past Toney on resume, but in this matchup he's struggling.

[GOD-FR33]

Toney by stoppage.....

James Toney is a HOF'mer and one of the best defensive fighters of all-time. This is why he KO's GGG.