Why don't any boxers use this kind of stance anymore?

[_original_]

I'd love to see a fighter full-on bring that stance and fighting style back, handlebar mustache and all.

[kafkod]

They both fought "white boy" style.

Maybe if "slick" had been invented back then, Johnson would have won.

Johnson was exiled from the US, like 37 years old, and not training very diligently

Prime Johnson makes a fool out of Willard who just was huge and had a big overhand right

Slick Johnson would still have beaten Willard at 37 doe.

[100percentTruth]

You never see it these days, do you think someone could bring it back and have success with it?

Floyd Mayweather uses it. The difference is Floyd's feet are wider apart for his jabs to the body, and the rotation of his hands are different(different era). It's an effective stance for fighting and but it's more offensive than defensive so Floyd compensates that with the shoulder roll for his defense.

[MasterPlan]

The same reason they don't use leather helmets for NFL and peach baskets for NBA.

[Syf]

You know guys.... a little knowledge goes a long way.

Fighting with smaller gloves means more of a direct connection when hitting. The foward lead punch was done from that stance without turning the hand over, a little piston action to the chin usually and it was often a ko punch. When you introduce larger gloves you break this connection and need to square up more, turn the arm over (which is how this punch became the jab) and that is why this stance change.

this stance is the most biomechanically correct way to hit, but one cannot transfer the blow with larger gloves. Also this stance allows many more variations in how to defend and attack...James Figg used a fencing vocabulary to teach boxing, orginally one could retreat, lunge, etc. In this stance one can very quickly come back foot to front, close to grips, and avoid blows with footwork.

When boxing developed its own vocabulary guys started to change stances to reflect the specific concerns of punching. Still, this was a good method and allows one short crisp punching and the ******* use of footwork.

Quality post... just when I start to lose faith in this place.. Billeau comes along kicking real knowledge. One thing I notice about that old time stance is how much it resembles the ready positions of both wing tsun and bagua, only those systems employed open hand more often than closed fist in their ready positions.

As keeping with the concepts of those systems, and others, keeping a longer structure allows for more parrying and use of chin na... in addition to how you pointed out it makes a shorter distance needed to travel to reach your target with the lead hand.

Boxing, however has no open hand technique.. and parrying is at best underused... so the defensive structure has evolved to be brought in closer to the head, to compensate for a deficit of open hand technique in boxing.

But it's interesting to me how boxing's root stance is so similar to many kung fu styles. It just evolved over time to compensate for the usage of gloves.

[lefthook2daliva]

You know guys.... a little knowledge goes a long way.

Fighting with smaller gloves means more of a direct connection when hitting. The foward lead punch was done from that stance without turning the hand over, a little piston action to the chin usually and it was often a ko punch. When you introduce larger gloves you break this connection and need to square up more, turn the arm over (which is how this punch became the jab) and that is why this stance change.

this stance is the most biomechanically correct way to hit, but one cannot transfer the blow with larger gloves. Also this stance allows many more variations in how to defend and attack...James Figg used a fencing vocabulary to teach boxing, orginally one could retreat, lunge, etc. In this stance one can very quickly come back foot to front, close to grips, and avoid blows with footwork.

When boxing developed its own vocabulary guys started to change stances to reflect the specific concerns of punching. Still, this was a good method and allows one short crisp punching and the ******* use of footwork.

Very informative and the logic is not hard to follow. I'll be interested to see if anybody has an effective statement that contradicts what you've written.

Great post. Learn somethin' ever'day.

[lefthook2daliva]

The stance is used for taller fighters; allows the jab to be thrown with with less distance to the target and allows you to push the opponents jab away. I was tough the style very early but for a very short period of time; this was as my trainer put it "allowed you to learn to throw a jab with more power and learn distance."

This was my initial thought as it reminds me of how Vitali fights. Maybe with the chin tucked a bit more, but Vitali seems to stay very well positioned in his fights relative to his opponent and covers ground quickly, though he looks very awkward and not at all "slick".

[Eff Pandas]

Did they really use that stance for fighting back then, or just while posing for photos?

Here's Philadelphia Jack O'Brian. Is he really demonstrating the 1910 version of the philly shell?

Pretty sure he just gots to poo really bad.

[Kel1981]

I'm not saying no black fighters used this style, I'm saying white boys invented it.

'Invented' lol

"Look everyone, I invented a new way to stand today. If anyone ****s with me I'm gonna do this and hit them"

[billeau2]

Quality post... just when I start to lose faith in this place.. Billeau comes along kicking real knowledge. One thing I notice about that old time stance is how much it resembles the ready positions of both wing tsun and bagua, only those systems employed open hand more often than closed fist in their ready positions.

As keeping with the concepts of those systems, and others, keeping a longer structure allows for more parrying and use of chin na... in addition to how you pointed out it makes a shorter distance needed to travel to reach your target with the lead hand.

Boxing, however has no open hand technique.. and parrying is at best underused... so the defensive structure has evolved to be brought in closer to the head, to compensate for a deficit of open hand technique in boxing.

But it's interesting to me how boxing's root stance is so similar to many kung fu styles. It just evolved over time to compensate for the usage of gloves.

Kung Fu is sort of like calling boxing "a test of the heart" Its actually "Chinese Boxing" which definitely indicates similarity. Yes the parallels are all there. The mother styles are Bagua (fighting in circles) Hsin Yi (Fighting in straight lines) and Tai Chi perpetual motion. From these mother styles we get the differnt boxing styles and they do have similarities.

The fist is used in the Southern styles, particularly Wing Chun, but not as much a part of the systems as with western boxing. The reasons for this are probably cultural. In the west is a belief that men hit with a closed fist.

There are also similarities to certain old Ju Jutsu systems...look at a Samurai woodcut from almost any period after the 1500's and you will see leg positions that look remarkably like the old fighters...As a matter of fact when boxing first came along the same length called sword length was employed which is the distance of a blade (usually about 3-5 feet)held to a length where it just would miss its mark. So there are a lot of similarities.